Human Catchers

[mattgslater]

K, learning to play with mass AG3/Dodge. Made this team to help me practice. But part of the thing with Humans is that their rostered Dodge comes with ST2. The Catcher I have is a mobile assist. I got him two TDs super-fast, and he just pins some guy down, now usually pinning several prone guys in a scrum, so I can push him free on my turn. He gets hit some, but it works nicely.

What do I do with the other one if he doesn't stat up? Wrestle-Dauntless? Wrestle-SS-DT? I gave the first one Block 'cause the team was brand new and a single Blodger, even at ST2, is a big deal at 1M. Now he has Guard, so I feel prescient. This time around, I have a fair load of Blodge, though if his first roll is a double it could be a repeat of the track. (That much Blodge/Guard could be really evil in about four games, but would leave me with 70k TV tied up in doubles.)

Anybody have actual success running more than 2 Catchers? I hate being so weak, but if there's a way to make it work, the I-Told-You-So value would be awesome.

For those who don't want to follow the link:
Humans, TV 1510k
Linemen (5): D/G, Wx4
Catchers (2): B/G, rookie
Throwers (1): B
Blitzers (4): D/SS, MB/G, MB/T/PO, G/D
Apo, 3RR, 7FF

[EastCoast]

I recently posed a similar thread over on Cyanide's boards, running a two catcher, no Thrower team.

So it looks like you are swimming in wrestle already... Why not Blodge/Surehands the second catcher as the primary ball carrier on offense and then as a ball retriever/outlet on defense?

[Smurf]

I'm not a conservative player and don't get the block on the catcher. And with guard is even more baffling. I develop teams to cream these guys.

You don't think a NOS retriever throwing the ball to a diving catch receiver?

[Don__Vito]

Good lord you're hilarious!

[mattgslater]

NOS? Diving Catch? Not my way. I like core skills. I don't mind spamming non-traditional core skills, but if it's not about blocking and getting blocked, it better be really top-notch, massive butt-saver, along the lines of Sure Hands, or a very late skill that's still really mostly about space or blocking (might contemplate Diving Tackle or Pro on some player at some point, say). Sometimes that's situational, like Kickoff Return for Dwarfs or Orcs or Khemri, but that's as cute as I get.

Tell ya what, if I get doubles on an AG4 Catcher, I'll consider Nerves.

Even at ST2, MA8/Blodge/Guard drives people crazy.

Oops, I forgot to list my Block Thrower. Original post edited to reflect this. Is this an argument against SH Catcher?

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Best to cycle them for + stats.
As good value as human throwers are Block Surehands is good for them.
Failing that Block Dauntless Tackle kind of build.

[EastCoast]

Oops, I forgot to list my Block Thrower. Original post edited to reflect this. Is this an argument against SH Catcher?

Not necessarily, though at the point you had SH on the Catcher, I wouldn't have as much use for the Thrower because on offense I would almost always pickup the ball with the catcher and use him as the runner. But if you take Leader on your next skill up, your Thrower will be about 10K more TV efficient than a lineman in the lineman role, and he gives you some nice options in the unfortunate event that you find yourself needing to throw the ball, or you need a backup ball carrier.

[plasmoid]

I've had a good run with a 4 catcher team.
Started with 2 catchers, skilled them to blauntless, then bought the other 2.
Then again I like high MA and playing like a pacifist. I get the impression you're quite the opposite.
Cheers
Martin

[Oly1987]

I'm not a conservative player and don't get the block on the catcher. And with guard is even more baffling. I develop teams to cream these guys.

You don't think a NOS retriever throwing the ball to a diving catch receiver?

my new best friend!!! xD

but on a serious note a guard catcher will play an important (if maybe short) career in a human team. His ma8 and dodge make him a brilliant mobile guarder. if he lives long enough to get to blodge/guard/sidestep/fend he will become an absolute menace to your opponent.

To the quote, I would consider NOS if I was like 4 skills down the road and already had block/sidestep/diving catch (in that order of progression if you want to use him as a TD scorer). That said anything before 4th skill and he's getting guard so ive never had a NOS/DC catcher

To Matt, you can play with 4 catchers but defence is a double edged sword with them, you have incredible speed to cover all area's of the pitch, but st2/av7 will hurt if you get into a scrum. On offence you are hard to stop with so many scoring options.

[spubbbba]

Human catchers are the weak link of the team. The speed is nice but everything else is mediocre or a liability.

Like most hybrid teams humans need a bench since they struggle when under strength. They will get beaten up by bashers and need to foul to be able to do sufficient damage against agile teams. The trouble with catchers is that the ST2 and AV7 makes them prime targets. If you take too many then you risk getting beaten up by the agile team since they can easily evade your ogre and may win the blocking war with their greater mobility making up for lack of guard.

Catchers do have a decent amount of skill choices but they tend to need several skills to be any good and that makes them expensive in TV. They do great with stat increases so I’d prefer to recycle them along with linemen who don’t get doubles.

Block and sidestep are always useful and usually my 1st 2 picks, after that you can give them diving tackle and tackle to be a pain to other receivers but their low ST makes them less good at that. Some make them into safeties but they really need wrestle, dauntless and tackle to be worthwhile. No team should build themselves around the passing game so diving catch is a waste and NoS is a bad choice. A 1 turner with sure feet, sprint and SS may be helpful but that is quite a lot of TV for a not very likely chance of scoring.

The blitzers do well with the strength skills and throwers are really good value so you can give them block then utility skills like kick and leader before giving them linemen skills such as tackle and strip ball.

[Da_Great_MC]

I always go Block first, then Sidestep. Combines well with Guard, if a double should come up.

Third skill (if no doubles or stats are rolled) is Sure Feet, makes the OTS a bit more reliable.

[crimsonsun]

for frustration value block, SS, Guard, Fend, Shadowing, and eventually tackle is a complete arse of a marker that has to be dealt with, which is not always that easy.

[Megr1m]

One of the easiest ways of making multiple catchers viable, is to skill them into Block -> Dauntless.

They end up making excellent cover blitzers, and can hold their own if you play against people who like to base them with ST3/4 pieces in the hopes of generating turn-overs.

[mattgslater]

Ya, just retired two Wrestlers (well, one lived to retire at -MA, the other retired as a Zombie). I think it's time to get some Dauntless. Catcher #2 hasn't been a liability, though he isn't always on the pitch on defense. He has Block and 6 SPP right now. I'm not tempted to hire #3, I must say: just got me three new linemen. #1 is still on 19; Guard really slows his progression, but I'm not complaining. He may be there a bit, given that I want to get my Dodge/SS guy up. Here's where I am now, at 12-2-1, from most SPP to least.

Blitzers: T/Fz/POMB (63); G/MB/T (31); G/D (28), D/SS (23);
Catchers: B/G (19); B (6)
Thrower: B/Acc (18) MNG
Linemen: G/D/B (37); W (14); W (9); Rookie x3 (0 each).
3 RR, Apo, FF 10, 1.54M (1.65M healthy), 530k Treasury.

PainState was right: Humans function more smoothly without an Ogre, at least not in matching TV or low TV environments. My two Ranked teams with Block Ogres are 10-5-5 and 19-8-10, these guys have it much easier. Or maybe it just has to do with that boatload of doubles....

[Necro10c]

So, as this is a little subject I like to debate. I find that the catcher gives the human team two distinct advantages, the access to Ag skills and with 4 of them a possibility to vary them in a league setting.

First off I believe that survivability is important for these guys, (or the first two anyways) and I mostly consider using them in pairs for defense and offense. My normal route of development goes like this(barring doubles or stat increase):

1: Block, Diving Catch, Side-Step, Fend.
2: Wrestle, Strip Ball, Dauntless, Fend/Jump-Up/Diving Tackle.
3: Diving Tackle, Block, Side-Step, Shadowing.
4: Block, Surefeet, Sprint, Diving Catch.

The idea is that these guys are very well suited to score already, and at low TV are very good ballcarriers if protected. The versatility they add to the team on both offense (as either fast assistance or possible catchers(!)) and defense (as markers or strip ball'ers) are invaluable to the team. I agree that they are fragile, but the headaches they give my opponents and the versatility they add to the team are rewarding for most human teams IMO.

Cheerio,
Necro10c