Khemri "generic" development plan - comments welcome

[Smeborg]

Tackle is great.
But sometimes 3-dice blocks will fill in just fine.

And take leader on the ThroRa already. Doubles on skellies should be used to push your strength advantage with guard. IMO.

So would you prioritise Guard over M-Blow on either the Blitz-Ras or the TGs? I had kind of assumed that M-Blow would be better first on the TGs to allow them to continue their skill progression (which would otherwise stop at 1 skill).

[Ullis]

The new Khemri seem to have the slowest skill progression I've ever seen. As an example I offer my own team from Fumbbl (LRB6 rules).

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=627208

If you start with the TG's, they only have 5 casualties between them. Peleset, the only TG to play in all 12 games has thrown 77 blocks without a single casualty. Kemet at 11 games has thrown 70 blocks with 3 casualties. Only one of the games has been against AV 7 teams (vampires) so that goes some way towards explaining why there's so few casualties. I've managed to score twice with one of them but that's just coincidence and both TD's came in situations where the game was already well in the bag and I had at least two turns to try and recover the ball if the TG failed the catch or pick up. So MB seems a really important skill if you ever want to get them to two skills.

And then the Blitz-ra's. MB as first skill on the other blitz-ra has really helped his progression as he totally leads the teams cas count with 5 casualties. The other one quickly went to two skills while the other one languishes at 5 spp's from an MVP.

I started off with only one Thro-ra and he's the star of the team. First skill up was +MA which has helped immensely. Tackle on him has worked great as I use him as a safety, not that I've faced lots of Dodge. The other thro-ra just got his second skill after 9 games.

Skills on the skeletons (grand total of two!) have all been due to MVP's.

The team has never scored more than two TD's in a match. If I could've distributed the TD's more evenly instead of the one thro-ra hogging everything, I could have at least three more skills on the team (on blitz-ra's and skeletons) but I've rarely had the luxury of having the chance to try and hand off safely.

I guess what this boils down to is Mighty Blow, Mighty Blow, 3-d blocks and Mighty Blow. I imagine giving a blitz-ra Tackle would mean that that's all he's good for from that point on as it'd never get a second skill.

[plasmoid]

Hi Smeborg,
you need mighty blow on the TGs to ever get them to 2nd skill.
That being said - a single guard can often set you up for 3-dice blocks on the LOS, which will save you rerolls.
If a skeleton doesn't roll doubles early, then one of the TGs should seriosuly consider it as first skill (but I'd get some with mighty blow first).

I'd probably take tackle on one of the BlitzRas as first skill. Frenzy can be a decent substitute...

Ullis - hand-offs are dangerous. But that BlitzRa with 5 SPP: Start a drive by picking up with him. Then don't let go until you reach the EZ (and a skill )

Cheers
Martin

[Smeborg]

Thanks, guys. Very helpful.

[Ullis]

Ullis - hand-offs are dangerous. But that BlitzRa with 5 SPP: Start a drive by picking up with him. Then don't let go until you reach the EZ (and a skill )

That's actually a brilliant idea. I think I could spare at least one reroll on the pick up attempt by now due to two Guard making 3-d blocks with the TG's much easier. And he's as fast as a generic thro-ra anyway.

[necrosis]

I am a big fan of kick off return on 2 throws-ras as I have stated a few times.

I go for the following on them. I don't bother with leader on the throw-ras i think the skills are more important.
throw-ras: block, kick off return, tackle

You need mighty blow on all tomb guardians to help build up spp to get the guard, stand firm etc. I also like break tackle on one or two of them.

The blitz-ras i go for mighty blow for the reason above (hard to get spp as they rarely score tds) but get tackle soon after that. Playing dodge teams early on can be tough, you basically hope your 2 die blocks come up trumps and the other player doesn't realise he just needs to run past you to win .

[Smeborg]

Har, har. Played my first couple of "real" games yesterday. Lost 1-2 to rookie Skaven. Drew 1-1 with Rookie Dwarfs. Both games were very close, and I felt I could have got a draw and a win if I had more experience with the team. A TG died from Decay, while a Skellie lost a point of AV. Thanks to MVPs, a TG now has M-Blow, a Throw-Ra has Block.

I can see it will take me a while to learn how to play Khemri. Like some other slow teams, they require great accuracy, but of a different kind. Seemingly innocuous positioning errors can cost a lot. Skilling up will be a slow process, therefore a no frills development plan would seem to make sense.

Thanks for all your help.

[Lunchab1es]

I wonder about the efficacy of planning so much tackle on the team. If in a perfect world, you manage to attain 2-3 skills on every single player as planned, that would be alot of skills/TV wasted against a wide variety of sides (bar doubles selection of dodge) which tend to be quite popular.

Also, I know that you much prefer generalist builds over specialists, but I feel as though an exception could be made for a DP skellie.

[Smeborg]

Lunchab1es - I am quite open-minded about this team, as it is my first attempt at playing them. I am just trying to clarify my thoughts and plans before I develop the team, rather than after! I learn better from following a clear plan (even if the plan fails...).

I plan 4 Tacklers on the team (the MA6 players). In the real world, that likely means 2 or 3. The Skellies are cannon-fodder, essentially. I plan Block/Fend with them (probably). I'm not sure of the value of D-P on this team if you want to run with a 14 player roster. It might be perfectly viable to run a 16 player roster with 2 D-P Skellies (quite tempting), but I'm not planning to do this at the moment. I will be interested to see how TV dynamics work out for Khemri (low TV is one of the few advantages the team has - it probably deserves to be re-inforced).

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Suffered a second dead TG from Decay in the 3rd game. Luckily this time he was a Merc. 2 dead TGs from Decay in just 3 games is a bit of a worry - I already know that Decay is bad, but on this team it might be "worse than I thought"...

On the plus side, after a famous 3-0 victory against Orcs, I now have a +1ST Thro-Ra (Toerag is his name). The team is developing in "lucky" fashion, with the 3 MVPs falling on a TG, a B-Ra and a T-Ra who all had other SPPs. The Skellies already look like complete retards in development terms - a lean diet of lucky CAS and MVPs seems to be all they will get. The T-Ras hog the TDs, therefore I agree with the advice given above to feed the ball to the B-Ras sometimes.

I expect to persist with my policy of Tackle on the B-Ras (I have one already) and Block+Tackle on the T-Ras. The Khemri look particularly weak against the AG teams, so I like the idea of early Tackle. Maybe it's just my playstyle, but I find that the T-Ras are rather often the Blitzers, especially on defense. The +ST T-Ra would be particularly useful in this role.

I am already developing a soft spot for this retarded team. They may not be great at winning, but they play long, hard-fought drives. Since their plays are generally unambitious, they exceed expectation more often than not.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

At the risk of minor threadomancy (but hey, this is an undead team), I thought I would provide an update. Here is the team after 16 games (4 wins, 6 draws, 6 losses):

TG: M-Blow, + AV (20 SPPs)
TG: M-Blow, Guard (16)
TG: M-Blow (13)
TG: M-Blow (9)
B-Ra: Tackle, M-Blow [-1MA] (25)
B-Ra: - (5)
T-Ra: +1ST, Block, Dodge (49)
T-Ra: Block, Tackle (27)
Sk: +1ST (10)
Sk: - (5)
Sk: - (2)
3 rookie Sks (no SPPs)
3RR, 6FF, 1AC, 1CL, TV161

I like the way the team is developing, and feel vindicated in going for early Tackle on the Blitz-Ras and Thro-Ras. It makes the team much more effective on defense. M-Blow as first skill on the TGs is an obvious way to ensure they keep skilling up. With 2 ST increases and more Guard to come soon, the raw ST of the team is becoming a handy and intimidating asset. +AV may seem odd on the TG, but it has worked at least a couple of times, and I really do not like Decay. Staying on the pitch is important for this team - it's about all they can reliably do!

Results are improving (first 8 games were 1-3-4, last 8 were 3-3-2). Last game was an unlucky loss to well coached Skaven with 2 AG5 Gutter Runners and 2 MA10 Gutter Runners. Lost 2-1 thanks to a 1-turner on turn 8. Had a great sack attempt on the ball carrier in the second half (2 dice Block/Tackle with RR against a GR), but it failed (4 pushes). This illustration is to show how far the team has come, that it can contest the game against such a side.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

The new Khemri seem to have the slowest skill progression I've ever seen.

Ullis - my team has 181 SPPs from 16 games, or 11 SPPs per game (retained). Only 5 have been lost (a retired Skellie with an MVP). That seems quite good to me, although of course it can change for the worse.

The TGs have 21 CAS between them, the Tackle/M-Blow Blitz-Ra has 5, the rest of the team combined has 3.

The Thro-Ras have 18 TDs between them, the rest of the team combined has 1.

Every attempt to skill up the 5 SPP Blitz-Ra has failed.

It looks like every player on this team (Thro-Ras excepted) is difficult to get to 1 skill, but progression seems much faster thereafter.

I thought about M-Blow first on the Wights, but that would have meant no Tackle for a long time. Initial progression for them would indeed seem problematic.

Hope that helps.

[Alu-Cinator]

Hello Smeborg,


Have you continued to play this team?
If yes, what is the state of progress of the team (w-d-l)?
And for each player (xp, skill)?

And what is your general feeling about Khemris after (perhaps) a number of games?


Ty in advance.

[Smeborg]

Hi Alu-Cinator -

The team has retired, I now play another one. They have done well so far:

1-0 win against Khemri
2-1 win against Chaos Pact
1-0 win against Chaos
1-1 draw against Elf
1-1 draw against Orcs

The last 2 games were tough as I faced a Wizard; desperate play and a fair bit of luck were required to snatch the draws. In general I feel these results have been "lucky". But also I am getting better at playing them.

I am rather fond of Khemri - I seem to have a weakness for retarded teams. Having played Nurgle a lot helps me to coach them with reasonable accuracy. I often make the "mistake" of putting 1 or 2 players ahead of the ball on defense - even when this looks good (e.g. TZ on the ball) it tends to fail. The main thing I find frustrating is that once you are behind by 1 TD, all you can hope for is a draw. Other clumsy teams (Nurgle is a good example) can win the game from 1-0 down, Khemri it seems cannot.

Here is the team after 5 games:

TG: M-Blow (9 SPPs)
TG: M-Blow (7)
TG: - (2)
TG: -
B-Ra: Dodge (9)
B-Ra: - (5)
T-Ra: Block (6)
T-Ra: - (3)
Skelly: - (5)
Skelly: - (5)
Skelly: - (2)
3 rookie Skellies
3 RR
5 FF
TV: 131
Treasury: 40,000

I have retired and replaced a skilled Thro-Ra (-1MA) and a Skelly (-1AG). Development is slow but steady, the positional players are mostly under way. I have changed my skill development plan somewhat to put more emphasis on mobility, e.g. Dodge + B-Tackle on the MA6 players, B-Tackle on the Tomb Guardians as 3rd skill (after M-Blow, Guard). This is in response to frustrating situations where greater mobility could have given me TDs, sack chances, or simply better defense.

Hope that helps. All the best.

[SunDevil]

Smeborg, I cannot tell you how pleased I am that you have picked up the Khemri!

I agree with most of your plans but would add that one DP Skel is worth his weight in gold. He can't bash like the TGs and Blitz-Ras with his knuckles but he can do the job with his feet.

I also would have kept the -AG Skeleton as he still does his job without it. But I kow you like ballcarrier options and the Skels do have the best AG on the team, tied anyway.

Keep us updated!