Pact in short term (12 ex playoff) league - chosen MVP

[spubbbba]

Remember league play is very different from ranked. I don’t think keeping Tv artificially low will help in a short league since inducements are not as useful as skilled players.

If all the other teams start as rookies you will find thing tough when facing teams like undead or orcs who can build TV quickly. Pact are great for TV efficiency but that only works in a TV matched environment.

The reason I suggest taking all 3 big guys is to help win the blocking war. The trick being to maximise the number of blocks you make and/or minimise the number you get back. Not only do you get 3 players with MB but it also adds to your average strength. Even teams like humans and high/dark elves can be a serious bashing threat to pact since they start with some block players and are more mobile so can pick their battles.

[Smeborg]

It's much more intimidating playing against 3 Big Guys than against 2. Not only do you face more blocks with M-Blow, but lots of your players will get sucked in when the situation demands that you block or blitz a Big Guy.

Think of it from your opponent's perspective. Perhaps try a practice game or two against a 3 Big Guy roster.

Hope that helps.

[Hitonagashi]

It's much more intimidating playing against 3 Big Guys than against 2. Not only do you face more blocks with M-Blow, but lots of your players will get sucked in when the situation demands that you block or blitz a Big Guy.

Think of it from your opponent's perspective. Perhaps try a practice game or two against a 3 Big Guy roster.

Hope that helps.

Well, it's intimidating, until your opponents have practiced it.

The problem with taking a Mino purely for the psychological factor is what happens when someone calls your bluff.

My issue with the Mino is that if you need your blitz every turn, then once the play moves away from him, 2 failed WA rolls and he's out of the drive. In that instance, a rookie marauder is actually better, as he can still lend assists and protect your players. With AV8. it's just way too easy to -2d away the mino and leave him roaring at space, or just put him down in the knowledge he probably won't get up again for a while.

I've lost 2 minos in 4 games so far, and the need to blitz to actually get the mino anywhere useful has cost me wins in two cases. If you don't plan to be blitzing with the mino, the marauder is far more reliable for assists, and if you do plan to blitz with him, then 25% of the time you'll be regretting it.

[Smeborg]

It's much more intimidating playing against 3 Big Guys than against 2. Not only do you face more blocks with M-Blow, but lots of your players will get sucked in when the situation demands that you block or blitz a Big Guy.

Think of it from your opponent's perspective. Perhaps try a practice game or two against a 3 Big Guy roster.

Hope that helps.

Well, it's intimidating, until your opponents have practiced it.

The problem with taking a Mino purely for the psychological factor is what happens when someone calls your bluff.

My issue with the Mino is that if you need your blitz every turn, then once the play moves away from him, 2 failed WA rolls and he's out of the drive. In that instance, a rookie marauder is actually better, as he can still lend assists and protect your players. With AV8. it's just way too easy to -2d away the mino and leave him roaring at space, or just put him down in the knowledge he probably won't get up again for a while.

I've lost 2 minos in 4 games so far, and the need to blitz to actually get the mino anywhere useful has cost me wins in two cases. If you don't plan to be blitzing with the mino, the marauder is far more reliable for assists, and if you do plan to blitz with him, then 25% of the time you'll be regretting it.

The best Pact coaches I have played against have used all 3 Big Guys, but with great caution. I agree that if you over-use the Minotard, you are asking for trouble.

All the best.

[mattgslater]

I'm not talking about TV management, I'm talking about on-pitch skill management. You need to spread the skill love around, and fast, Mino or not, and you need to load up on basic skills, which for Pact means normal skills.

[Hitonagashi]

The best Pact coaches I have played against have used all 3 Big Guys, but with great caution. I agree that if you over-use the Minotard, you are asking for trouble.

All the best.

Hehehe, each to their own.

On FUMBBL, taking a Mino is almost always a sign of a weak coach, or someone that wants a handicap. In this specific situation, it might pull its weight.

The way I view the mino is that it will increase your chances to win 75% of the games, and instantly lose you 25% of them. If you are aiming for a < 65% win percentage, it can be a good purchase.

[nick_nameless]

RE: The Minotaur...

An interesting strategy with him is to play the "2 Skills to Tentacles" game. Let him get the first 2 skills. No doubles = cut and rebuy. Make Stand Firm the first non-doubles skill.

Next thing you know you have a tentacled Mino standing in the middle of your opponent's scrum, backed up by a troll and an ogre. I go for Tentacles on the Mino instead of the other 2 bug guys (not that you can't have more than one) because he never loses his tackle zones. If he gets knocked down then blitz with him unless it is critical that you don't. Get Grab early on the Troll and Ogre to feed opponents to the Mino and then pound on them.

[Smeborg]

[quote="Hitonagashi"On FUMBBL, taking a Mino is almost always a sign of a weak coach, or someone that wants a handicap.[/quote]I don't play on FUMBBL, which is a rather different universe.

All the best.

[mattgslater]

Actually, Ranked FUMBBL is very similar to open perpetual league play, only with a very large field of opponents that leads to tighter TV management. Box is a totally different animal, but young teams in Ranked behave similarly to young teams anywhere, a couple of strange boutique jobbies aside, like 650k Halflings which don't work in Ranked, and Welcome-to-Ranked style teams which aren't really necessary in most large open TT leagues. And League is as League does, and Hito's comments about the Mino are still pretty much valid in all of them, though with perhaps a bit of emphasis in TV-matching where he's even worse.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Also there is the League division on FUMBBL, where there are scheduled leagues, cups, all sorts of things that players can run that can be exactly like a TT league.
In fact, twice my friends and I have ran a league online rather than playing in person as it is so much easier to organise the games when people are free etc.
Minos are at their best at low TV where their impact is at it's highest and 6 mb dice a turn can yield pretty good results.
However they are ultimately a liability and just too much TV to put into one unreliable player.

[Shteve0]

Aha, perhaps I should clarify - I am indeed playing in a [friendly] tabletop league. It's not a perpetual environment, but a fixed, 13-15 game format (depending on playoff results).

As such, strategies such as cutting and rebuying the Minotaur are not really considerations, and TV management rarely presents itself (there's a Claw MB Bloodthirster - after three CAS in his opening game! - who I'm quite sure will be happy to make any cuts for me )

I'm keen to try out a fun(ish) build for this, but three BGs are probably a bit beyond my control. I also fear I'm going to need a twelfth man and a leg up when it comes to that free reroll, so I've gone with the following roster (I still need to work out how to get extra charachters on the pdf roster view though!):

http://nzcbbl.obblm.com/handler.php?typ ... detailed=0

At risk of offending anyone (I'd rather not, as I need all the help I get) I'm specifically looking here for pointers on Pact in TT (or fixed term, non-perpetual) league environments.

Thanks for all the advice so far! I have my first game pencilled in for Monday - still looks like being Orcs, unfortunately - so will have a better idea after that where in particular I'm going to struggle!

Cheers

S

[Megr1m]

As someone who plays Pact through FUMBBL in a scheduled league, I think I can add to this.

The short of it is that with three big guys, you want to be looking at the ~16/1700 tv mark as your uppermost cut-off. Once you starting getting to that stage (or alternatively, once you have your basic skills on Marauders and positional pieces), you'll want to start looking to cut the three down to one core. Typically I think it'll be the Troll because he is the cheapest and most durable, but arguments could be made for any of the three, depending on your playstyle.

The only thing you might be different is if you are going into a completely vanilla league, where TV is equal. With a fresh Pact team in a mature league, inducements go a long way to counter-acting the multiple big guys you have to manage.

[The Dazzler]

Does Nuffle love you? If so, take all 3 BGs*. If not (and you want to win more than you care about just having fun) drop the Mino.

Personally, i'd take the Mino from the off ,especially with chosen MVP, regardless of whether its optimal. He's likey to be gone anyway after a game or two

*Isn't that the point of CP, something different?

[Shteve0]

Yes and no.

First game was a 1-1 draw against lithophile's vamps. I spent most of the game wishing I'd taken the mino over the troll and the rest of it wishing I had an apoth after seeing a lino die and burn out my 12th man.

Second game - vs Orcs - saw me score TTM 1TTDs in turn 8 of both halves in a hail of lucky dice, take -MA on my dark elf following a hail of unlucky dice, and then roll +ST on a lineman as three players skilled up at the end of a 4-2 win.

So yeah, I'm none the wiser, really. But whether he likes them or not, Nuffle is having some serious fun with this team...

[mattgslater]

First game was a 1-1 draw against lithophile's vamps. I spent most of the game wishing I'd taken the mino over the troll and the rest of it wishing I had an apoth after seeing a lino die and burn out my 12th man.

You did right. Apoth never works anymore, the only purpose is to waste 50k TV and give you false hope, or make you kick yourself for not using it on that first-turn Badly Hurt, or to spare you a Badly Hurt and then make you feel guilty about it when a guy dies later (not that the new Apoth would have saved him).