Clarification: Offensive Blitzer vs. Defensive Blitzer

[Jerhod]

I must give a point to Jerhod here, that's the best trait for a Wardancer (unless the entire rest of league is dominated by Chaos and Chaos Dwarves)

I have a point!

Still, who wants his Blitzer lying on the ground? Honestly, I very much doubt that I would ever take PO on any Blitzer.

I think that it's different with Wardancers than with other Blitzers. On a team with four Blitzers and AV 8-9 you can afford to have one of them be your Tackle/Piling On guy. Wardancers are much more versatile than other teams' Blitzers, so you definitely wouldn't want them on the ground. Also, Wardancers are notorious for being hard to knock down, so they'd be definite foul bait whereas another Blitzer might not be.

I think that the point the others were trying to make is that a good Defensive Blitzer should try to prevent the team from reclaiming the ball once you have it, and in a situation where the opposing ball carrier is off on his own having PO to stun him gives you a free turn once you have to ball to get it to safety. Again, given the movement and passing potential for Wood Elves this may not generalize as well to Wood Elves as it would to other slower teams.

[Jerhod]

Can someone clarify why jump up would be so good for a wardancer?

It's my unfortunate experience that once they go down, they're not getting back up in a hurry due to av 7 and fouling players.

I'm not completely closed to the idea but I'll need convincing to take it over dauntless say.

Jump Up is a great skill, in general, for three reasons:

1) You can block when you stand up instead of needing to Blitz. This means that getting knocked prone doesn't correspond to less blocking potential.

2) You get a full move when you get up; your opponent cannot rely on you having limited mobility on your next turn.

3) Most teams don't/won't get it, meaning that it will catch your opponent off guard.

Basically, it forces your opponent to take more variables into account. I think the same way about Dump Off - I don't think that it's a great skill in and of itself, but the fact that it forces your opponent to plan for so many more possibilities and/or commit more players to covering your thrower/possible receivers makes it a great skill.

I agree with with AV 7 and with Wardancers being foul bait it isn't always going to be too useful to them. However, Jump Up is definitely something that can easily cause turnovers, and that's a good enough reason for me.

[StillGas]

Fair enough. I think i'd prefer it for like a third or fourth skill though.

I reckon I'll give it a bash.

[Jerhod]

Fair enough. I think i'd prefer it for like a third or fourth skill though.

I reckon I'll give it a bash.

Usually you don't roll doubles on your first skill, so that's taken care of for you. And if you roll a double 5 or 6 with a Wardancer you'd much rather have the stat upgrade anyway.

It's really a matter of taste to a certain point, and your personal play style.

Something else I forgot to mention, Jump Up is very good on anyone you want to be a catcher. They always get their full move to get to the end zone. Granted, they'll have to move before the pass to stand up, so it'll be a long pass/long bomb most likely, but isn't that what the Wood Elves live for?

Best,
-Jerhod-

[Mirascael]

Can someone clarify why jump up would be so good for a wardancer?

It's my unfortunate experience that once they go down, they're not getting back up in a hurry due to av 7 and fouling players.

I'm not completely closed to the idea but I'll need convincing to take it over dauntless say.

viewtopic.php?t=6171

You'll find some answers there.

I only can say from about 250 games in the fumbbl league that Dauntless on my Wardancer was entirely wasted (used it once accidentally) and I dearly missed Jump Up. I think the Woodie-Position which wants Dauntless is the Catcher. As i said before, it might be different in a league which is dominated by STR 4+ ball carriers.

Furthermore, if you develop Wardancers properly, it can be extremely difficult to get him down at all and should bind many resources. It can be an incredible nuisance if he then can Jump Up on his next turn as though nothing happened at all. Wardancers are the heart and soul of any functional Woodie-Team, therefore you want to maximize their mobility as much as possible. The fact that Jump Up forces fouls should be prove enough to convincingly demonstrate how valuable this trait is on a Wardancer and binds even more resources. And with Side Step (which I personally take as first skill for new Wardancers in non-rookie Woodie-Teams) it should be difficult to set up a good foul against him.

[Mirascael]

Something else I forgot to mention, Jump Up is very good on anyone you want to be a catcher. They always get their full move to get to the end zone. Granted, they'll have to move before the pass to stand up, so it'll be a long pass/long bomb most likely, but isn't that what the Wood Elves live for?

Theoretically, yes. But Jump Up on Catchers hasn't worked for me so far, not even on Warcatchers (STR 3). Retrospectively, I would prefer Guard, Dauntless, NoS or ordinary skills now (perhaps not on a Warcatcher though).
It's also important to be aware of the fact that Jump Up sucks on ordinary Lineelves, at least from my experience with Woodie-Linedudes. Even with Guard, I'd chose Block, Dodge and Side Step anytime now without a second thought before I'd even consider Jump Up on them.

[Jerhod]

Theoretically, yes. But Jump Up on Catchers hasn't worked for me so far, not even on Warcatchers (STR 3). Retrospectively, I would prefer Guard, Dauntless, NoS or ordinary skills now (perhaps not on a Warcatcher though).

It's also important to be aware of the fact that Jump Up sucks on ordinary Lineelves, at least from my experience with Woodie-Linedudes. Even with Guard, I'd chose Block, Dodge and Side Step anytime now without a second thought before I'd even consider Jump Up on them.

I completely agree with you on the linemen: Guard and Dauntless is much more useful on linemen than Jump Up is by far.

I think that you're right on there being better skills to give a catcher on a doubles roll than Jump Up, too. With respect to a Wardancer, a player with a lot of versatility, the "get up and run to endzone" point is just one more reason to give it to him. I would not give it to a player who was only a catcher and nothing else.

I really like your name "Warcatcher." Very nice.

I'd really like to see you play your Wood Elves sometime and see just how you use your Wardancers now that we've talked about it so much, but neither of my FUMBBL teams is in your league, I think.

Best,
-Jerhod-

[Democritus]

We have much about wardancers and PO with jump up. But how about witch elfs who start with jump up. Should they pick PO on first double roll?

[Jerhod]

We have much about wardancers and PO with jump up. But how about witch elfs who start with jump up. Should they pick PO on first double roll?

I usually have my Witch Elves choose Nerves of Steel on a doubles roll. Some people have their Witch Elves take Piling On and swear by it, but every time my Witch Elf is on the group for any reason she usually gets fouled.