(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

[mattgslater]

Nerves of Steel looks to many coaches like it should be a good skill, but it's not. Block-SH, Guard maybe on doubles.

[El_Jairo]

Nerves of Steel looks to many coaches like it should be a good skill, but it's not. Block-SH, Guard maybe on doubles.

You might be right about this. It does only get good if you can take it on multiple players, like pro-elves, just one player on a non-passing team seems like I'm reaching for something that isn't there a viable passing game. It could only be useful if the ghoul would receive hand-offs when marked. But he is going to be the dedicated ball-retriever, so he is on the other en of the HO.

Many thanks for getting this straight in my head Matt

[mattgslater]

It's good if it's free. But its power is in combo value, and you just can't get enough skills to make a Nerves track viable, Dark Elf Runners and Pro Elf Catchers excepted.

[Digger Goreman]

Wrestle doesn't seem ideal for guard.

Maybe, but consider a wrestle+guard in contact: he assists a block, or two, then has at least a 50% chance to open an even larger hole by blocking/blitzing on his turn.... Sometimes wrestle can be used as a poor man's hypnotic gaze.... And wrestle is there to hopefully ease the abuse that ghouls suffer....

Nothing mentioned here is written in stone (well, maybe in GRAVEstone) so one might find an alternative build in making a strong arm/kor wight and a catch ghoul or two.... Stat increases are rarer than doubles... and either throw the equations out the window.... One point in making an arguable "best practices" team is to illustrate what you will lose should you choose an alternate build, or roll doubles/stats....

[stashman]

Wrestle doesn't seem ideal for guard.

Maybe, but consider a wrestle+guard in contact: he assists a block, or two, then has at least a 50% chance to open an even larger hole by blocking/blitzing on his turn.... Sometimes wrestle can be used as a poor man's hypnotic gaze....

I have a black orc with guard+wrestle and that orc do magic

Assists the weaker players with guard then taking down the ones left.

[Smeborg]

I ran a very successful Slann team which had 2 Linefrogs with Guard+Wrestle. They were outstanding, especially in defence. Often the opponent would roll Push/Both Down and take the Push (especially around the cage)!

This successful experiment suggests that Guard+Wrestle could be considered on other teams.

I would consider Wrestle+Guard on Pit Fighters (Khorne team), although my preference at the moment is to take Dodge rather than Guard on doubles.

Hope that helps.

[Cestrian]

I have a little dilemma with my ghouls. Basically I was planning to go down the route of build one for attacking drives (sure hands, block, kick off return), and one for defensive drives (tackle, wrestle etc).

Anyway, I got the attacking one sure hands and block - great - then my other ghoul rolled an 11 so I (obviously) took the +AG. So, now the +AG ghoul is going to be the attacking one (starting with block), but the question is, what should I do with the old attacking ghoul?

I'm thinking keep, give tackle and wrestle still. He'll die before the fourth skill anyway, but a ghoul who's around the recently downed ball carrier with sure hands should certainly be useful. Thoughts?

[mattgslater]

Two Sure Hands players is not that bloaty in most environments. Especially if you're fielding reserves. Especially especially if they're both AV7 and can't be saved by Apoth, Regen, or anything else. You don't really need a true hunter the way Undead do, though: that's what Weres are for. If you do go hunter with him take Strip Ball over Wrestle (should he live that long), and even over Tackle if the format is open and you have to arrange your games against cowardly elf coaches.

[Digger Goreman]

Agreed with keeping the two sh ghouls.... When all is going to plan, and you can come around for a wolfie blitz, it is best to have a picker-upper no matter where the ball scatters....

[Cestrian]

Yeah I'm happy with sure hands on the defensive ghoul either way. It's just I'd prefer wrestle over block for him and giving him both does definitely seem like a waste of TV. I like the strip ball idea, but, unfortunately, I'm going to have to get tackle before that...

Is there anything else that would make him a better hoover (so to speak)? So the wights/wolves can concentrate on popping the ball, knowing that the ghoul can nip in and secure the ball. Leap? Pro? Pass Block (kidding, kidding)?

[Digger Goreman]

Recap for us, please... exactly where are you on each ghoul, i.e.,

"ghoul 1: "

"ghoul 2: "

thanks....

[swilhelm73]

I'd suggest only one SH ghoul.

Yes, there will be times that you are then without one, but this is hardly that big of a concern. Generally you will need to pick up the ball twice a game, and there is no guarantee that either ghoul will be in position for a defensive pickup.

My perspective is to build one as a running ghoul and the other as a safety. The wolves are there for most of the hitting, but you can build the ghoul a little differently. So at medium level you might have something like (presuming a few doubles):

WW1: Block, MB, Dodge
WW2: Block, Dodge, SS
WI1: Guard, Dodge, SF
WI2: Guard, Tackle, MB
G1: Block, SH, SS
G2: Wrestle, Tackle, SS

[Vanguard]

I ran a very successful Slann team which had 2 Linefrogs with Guard+Wrestle. They were outstanding, especially in defence. Often the opponent would roll Push/Both Down and take the Push (especially around the cage)

I'm probably missing something, but surely Guard+Block would give the same effect and be more useful on offence. Until you run into an opponent with block, of course.

[Cestrian]

Ok, I currently have:

Wi 1: Guard, Leader
Wi 2: Guard, Tackle
WW 1: Block, Dodge
WW 2: Block
Gh 1: Sure Hands, Block
Gh 2: +AG

I play with one ghoul as ball carrier when attacking, and one as a sweeper when defending. I rarely have them both on at the same time. My original idea was to have a ball carrier with Sure Hands, Block, Kick-Off Return and a sweeper with Wrestle, Tackle, Strip Ball.

Obviously that plan will have to change due to the +AG roll, I'll probably get Block and Kick-Off Return with him (2) still, but the half built attacking ghoul (1) will have to change development plan.

Given that 1 already has block, I'm thinking wrestle would be too much of a bloat. Tackle's still needed I think, so that's next. If there is an after that, what would you do? I generally keep him as my last man back for a last ditch tackle or ready to dart in and snaffle the ball.

[mattgslater]

Hmmm, no Mighty Blow. That changes my analysis. This team strikes me as neither strong nor fast. I see why you put such a high priority on Tackle Ghouls, given your lack of killers; if you can't get players out you have to cover the opponent's speedies every game.

For the Ghouls, I'd turn both into dual-threats. I like to have Block and Side Step on a Ghoul with any age at all, but mind you my Necro experience is mostly with rookie teams or with teams with Golems (Golems <3 their little Side Step buddies, collect all you can; between those guys and the Zombies, Necro are an awesome Cult-of-Position team). I don't see "carrier" as a high priority; I'd rather invest in protecting whoever needs the SPP, with a little investment in Sure Hands 'cause sometimes you need it. You have, however, been given two optimal carriers, so you might as well Block/SH both of them up and branch out from there. Eventually one will die (they are Ghouls after all), so building them in the same mold is good insurance.

Much weight is given to the concept of a "sweeper" Ghoul on a Necromantic team, but he'll never be better than your third-best sweeper, so taking skills explicitly for that role is only worthwhile if you can bring out maximum bang-for-buck. That means either a one-off skill or the full-time focus that you can't afford. If you're only gonna take one true sweeper skill, it's Strip Ball, 'cause it forces offenses to tighten up, which helps you bring your Zombies to bear. So that's B/SH/SB/SS/Fend and +AG/B/SS/SH/Fend for my gold pieces.

I'd try to cover the sweeper base with my Weres. Ghouls take 3x as much damage per pow as Weres do, so building your Weres is much better for your team's "skill memory" (this matters in leagues, but not in open online environments). The Blodge Were can take Tackle and Side Step, the other one Tackle and Wrestle, both going Mighty Blow on doubles. Then Mighty Blow next on both Wights (I'd have bypassed the doubles on the Leader guy, or gotten Dodge). Need that Mighty Blow, can't afford to be man-down with a team that's neither strong nor fast.