Worst. Advice. Ever.

[Aliboon]

Going back to the point of the thread, I think Smurf's come up with another

The art of stealing possession is crucial, so scoring quickly means more time to steal possession.

[mattgslater]

Going back to the point of the thread, I think Smurf's come up with another

The art of stealing possession is crucial, so scoring quickly means more time to steal possession.

On defense, I think he's right. Stalling carries its own hazards, and scoring is sort of a "save game" that says, "I'm not losing this half," for whatever that's worth. That value is the variable. If you can take the ball away and score on T3, you should score, rinse, repeat unless you think it's safe to stall. If your opponent is starting to lock you down when you get control of the ball on defense, score! Otherwise, you might stall until you think the opponent probably won't score, which could be T5 or T8, depending on how the game is going and how well the other side's hurry-up game works.

Offense is a totally different story, unless you're already in the lead when you receive in the second half, or if you receive on a short clock, or if you're down more than one point. With a lead, you can score quickly to put the game away. If you're in a 2-point hole, you need to start working your way out quickly. If you receive with only a few turns, obviously you want to score in the time you have. Otherwise, you want to hold on long enough to wreck your opponent's scoring chances.

[garion]

He does have a point there. though the order is wrong. It should be kick first steal possession. Then once you are ahead you can start scoring quickly.

But I have found some more good ones. Sorry Smurf but yours just keep cropping up.

Wood Elves... no re-rolls because they mess with your zen style

smurf on wood elf stat increases -

AG: All, but no more than AG5, it allows you to drift through tackle zones

ST: I’m going to go really against the grain here and say take the double,
remember the Parkour style; you can benefit the team with Guard rather than
a single player with a ST increase. Plus it keeps your Team Value down

[mattgslater]

I just looked up the stats for my High Elves: exactly 4 comps/win, 3 comps/tie, 2 comps/loss (40/6/6, with a 10-2-3 record).

I did the same with my other FUMBBL teams, too, but found no correlation. My Orcs (6-2-6) have 9-5-9 comps, noticeably more with ties than Ws or Ls, but given the sample size there's nothing really to say about that. If it persists, I might attribute it to being more likely to throw late in the match with the game on the line. It might also have to do with a close game with my Thrower in the match. I have 2 comps in each of my two 2-point losses and 7 comps over my two big wins, so I may chuck it more in close losses (1.25 comps/1-point loss) than in close wins (0.5 comps/1-point win), which makes sense with a control team. Again, once broken down that small, I don't have much of a sample going on there. My Undead have one Comp (late in a blowout win) over nine games, 'cause, well, they're Undead.

Oh, and quit bashing on Smurf. Yeah, he's wrong a lot (sometimes hilariously), but every once in awhile there's a great little nugget in there. Or at least an object lesson.

[Smurf]

Garion, I'll let you know that my WE tactics has so far one approval... I wish the coach well and hope he gives me more approvals

The point is you sit down and the psyche out begins. How does that coach play, can I beat it... if you play like many other coaches then chances are you will be familiar to other coaches. Now if you start thinking outside the box and coming up with crazy ideas and they work - that's different. Of course you could say, oh that's not optimal but isn't optimal rated by how many times you win rather than skill use/player value.

[mattgslater]

Now if you start thinking outside the box and coming up with crazy ideas and they work...

There's the rub.

I can actually see some value to PB on the right team in the right environment. I just can't see actually doing it until I were deeply into team development in a very air-war setting. There's a lot of stuff with similar application but more power, like loading up on Block/Wrestle, Dodge, Side Step and Tackle.

But yeah, if you've got, say, Pro Elf or Slann Catchers with everything they need, on a team at peak build in a scheduled league, and several air teams are on the menu, then perhaps. Say, on #5 skills? Especially if your guys are able to get into cages on QPs, then you can kick and defend so as to make it hard to handoff. Even then, don't mistake that for an endorsement. If you really want PB, and to get use out of it, there may or may not be a viable avenue, depending on where you play.

Also, the "Leap on a Snow Troll" analogy is a poor one. That'll kill your Troll. PB on a guy built for PB is maybe not optimal, maybe even not useful, and it could even lead to injury (conceivably), but it's hardly hazardous.

[Deathwing]

Somebody back in the day on the old BB Central forum recommended that all your team colour schemes should be green and/or red on the basis that a lone figure could often be overlooked and it's surprising how many people are colourblind. Genius tactical advice!

[Joemanji]

Poor coaches like to pass more often. ...

Depends on what you use the passes for. If you've secured the victory, you may start engineering QPs just to build.

So how would having Pass Block help here?

[mattgslater]

Poor coaches like to pass more often. ...

Depends on what you use the passes for. If you've secured the victory, you may start engineering QPs just to build.

So how would having Pass Block help here?

Read the rest of the post, and you'll see that I'm quibbling with your statement, not disagreeing with your larger point about Pass Block.

Though on the right piece (AG5 Pro Elf Catcher with Blodge/Leap?), I could see it as a riskier, more powerful Disturbing Presence that doesn't work on handoffs. Proximity, in that case, is what creates danger, rather than pass security. That could matter if you're playing with the upper hand against a team with a passing option. Doesn't make it worth a skill slot, because stuff that's good when you have the upper hand is only worthwhile if it's also good when the chips are down, or at least when the odds are matched, and Pass Block is only useful against 25-50% of your opponent distribution, usually in ways you can't game around. Besides, it has a downside; like PO, a guy who uses PB but doesn't stop the pass often goes out of position to do it. (Unlike PO, PB will see use once or twice every 2-4 games, and sometimes use for deterrent value.)

Hey, here's an interesting test question for Nurgle coaches: how often does Disturbing Presence modify a die roll? What percentage of those rolls are handoffs?

[Smurf]

Nurgle is a poser. I've played against one and think the team really needs a kicker, to kick the balls shallow rather than deep, so picking up the ball is crucial and getting it away from the nasty nurgle dudes is important.

I failed a pass because I forgot to move the receiver one square (long bomb shift from 5+ to a 2+)... doh. But I have seen coaches miss some obvious things and we all go doh!

[Hitonagashi]

Garion, I'll let you know that my WE tactics has so far one approval... I wish the coach well and hope he gives me more approvals

The point is you sit down and the psyche out begins. How does that coach play, can I beat it... if you play like many other coaches then chances are you will be familiar to other coaches. Now if you start thinking outside the box and coming up with crazy ideas and they work - that's different. Of course you could say, oh that's not optimal but isn't optimal rated by how many times you win rather than skill use/player value.

Crazy ideas do far better with RR's to back them up. I love a crazy play as much as anyone, but RR's increase the chance of success dramatically. Remember, a saurus with a reroll has a greater than 50% chance of dodging or picking up the ball!

[Wanchor]

Hey, here's an interesting test question for Nurgle coaches: how often does Disturbing Presence modify a die roll? What percentage of those rolls are handoffs?

There should be a separate subforum devoted entirely to Nurgle.

Obviously, it depends on the team in question, but most who need or want to move the ball over long distances quickly will spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to navigate the maze of Disturbing Presence. That being said, most of the time, the hand-off is modified because I've locked down a 2 STR piece with my Beast and there's no chance of him fighting loose or dodging away without a series of unlikely dodge and tentacle rolls.

I've found that the way Disturbing Presence affects die rolls is indirectly, as a coach will often choose a crappy roll over an even crappier, DP-laden roll, which can often involve Going for It. No coach worth their salt is just going to look at the web of Disturbing Presence and say, "Screw it, I'll take the -3" unless they were really, really desperate. This actually happened two games ago; my Slann opponent, feeling doomed with his situation, attempted to pass knowing that he needed a six both to throw straight and catch. With a re-roll on both rolls, likelihood of success was, what, about about 30%? I think part of him was just hoping to fumble it away from my scary mass of Stand Firm.

[Smeborg]

There should be a separate subforum devoted entirely to Nurgle.

A thread with 994 posts is not enough ?

Obviously, it depends on the team in question, but most who need or want to move the ball over long distances quickly will spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to navigate the maze of Disturbing Presence. That being said, most of the time, the hand-off is modified because I've locked down a 2 STR piece with my Beast and there's no chance of him fighting loose or dodging away without a series of unlikely dodge and tentacle rolls.

I've found that the way Disturbing Presence affects die rolls is indirectly, as a coach will often choose a crappy roll over an even crappier, DP-laden roll, which can often involve Going for It. No coach worth their salt is just going to look at the web of Disturbing Presence and say, "Screw it, I'll take the -3" unless they were really, really desperate. This actually happened two games ago; my Slann opponent, feeling doomed with his situation, attempted to pass knowing that he needed a six both to throw straight and catch. With a re-roll on both rolls, likelihood of success was, what, about about 30%? I think part of him was just hoping to fumble it away from my scary mass of Stand Firm.

I would agree with these assessments. D-Pres is a skill like (ahem) P-Block, which can have a heavy indirect influence on your opponent's play. The main idea in practical play is to use D-Pres (and tackle zones) to present your opponent with a set of options for moving the ball that all appear equally bad. As the drive progresses, you aim to tighten the screws even further, so that the odds for moving the ball get worse. If your opponent is unable to run the ball in, he will eventually (through actual or psychological pressure) move the ball at "bad" odds (say more than 1 in 3 chance of a turnover, perhaps much worse). These odds can be compounded by the effects of Tentacles and/or Foul Appearance (for example by consuming a re-roll early in the turn before the ball is moved).

Hope that helps.

[garion]

Somebody back in the day on the old BB Central forum recommended that all your team colour schemes should be green and/or red on the basis that a lone figure could often be overlooked and it's surprising how many people are colourblind. Genius tactical advice!

Lol, thats brilliant.

[mattgslater]

I totally screwed up on FUMBBL once because I couldn't tell that my Orc Thrower hadn't acted. He's green, the pitch is green....