Underworld advice

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Pakulkan
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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Pakulkan »

RogueThirteen wrote:I'd keep an AG4 Goblin. If your goblin gets hit, it will likely be by someone with Block and/or Tackle blitzing, so it will usually end badly. Whether it's a 2D or a 3D block won't make much of a difference.

As long as he's not getting hit, which a goblin shouldn't be doing anyways, the Str difference doesn't matter. The AG4, though, is splendidly useful, especially when you get the opportunity for some 1-Turn attempts.
Fantastic in combination with BIG HAND IMO.

Dodge always on 2+ with Dodge, pick up always on 2+. Any fun ball will be yours! Also Horns will make him terrifying.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Pakulkan »

greymurphy42 wrote:I got four skill ups after my latest league match, and could use some advise on what direction to take my thrower in now that he's rolled +ST. The team is as follows...

Troll - Claw, Guard [normal - probably Stand Firm]
Blitzer - Guard
Blitzer
Thrower - Block, Kick Off Return
Thrower - Block, Leader, [+ST]
Lineman - Wrestle [double - probably dodge]
Lineman
Goblin - +AG, -ST
Goblin - Two Heads, [normal - probably horns]
4 rookie Goblins

3 RR
8 FF

Thanks in advance :D
I will take Stand Firm to maximize Guard.

Agree in picking Guard to lineman instead of Dodge. Dodge doesn't stacks very well with Wrestle.

Horns is the typical skill for a goblin after two heads.

Thrower+1 ST is amazing in defense and in attack.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Smeborg »

greymurphy42 wrote:I got four skill ups after my latest league match, and could use some advise on what direction to take my thrower in now that he's rolled +ST. The team is as follows...

Troll - Claw, Guard [normal - probably Stand Firm]
Blitzer - Guard
Blitzer
Thrower - Block, Kick Off Return
Thrower - Block, Leader, [+ST]
Lineman - Wrestle [double - probably dodge]
Lineman
Goblin - +AG, -ST
Goblin - Two Heads, [normal - probably horns]
4 rookie Goblins

3 RR
8 FF

Thanks in advance :D
Stand firm on the Troll - yes. Tentacles as 4th skill.

+ST on the Thrower is gold, you don't need Guard assists when he cages. 2-Heads may be good next, Tackle is also a candidate. Dodge would be best of course!

Linerat - Horns is best, I suggest.

Gobbo - Horns, yes.

Try to skill up the other Linerat to get Kick - important skill on this team

All the best.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by greymurphy42 »

More advice required for my team please :)

Troll - Claw, Guard, Stand Firm (36)
Blitzer - Guard (11)
Blitzer - (5)
Thrower - Block, Leader, +ST (42)
Thrower - [DOUBLE] (6)
Lineman - [NORMAL]
Lineman - Wrestle, Horns, -MA, Nigg (26)
Goblin - Wrestle (6)
Goblin - +AG, Big hand, -ST, Nigg (24)
Goblin - 2 heads, Horns (17)
4 rookie goblins

3 RR
1 Coach
1 Cheerleader
9 FF
Apo

What do I take? Thinking either wrestle or kick for the lineman, and dodge or guard for the thrower

Thanks in advance :)

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Smeborg »

greymurphy42 wrote:What do I take? Thinking either wrestle or kick for the lineman, and dodge or guard for the thrower

Thanks in advance :)
I would be inclined to take Kick on the Linerat, as it is such an important skill on this team. With a deep kick, you are always threatening to throw a Gobbo in the event of a Blitz! or early turnover - this puts indirect pressure on the opponent's offensive set-up. Wrestle would not be a wrong choice, but bear in mind that Kick is useful immediately, and if you get a doubles or stat increase at 16 SPPs, it may be a long time before the team gets Kick.

I would suggest Dodge on the Thrower. With Block next, he becomes a solid ball-holder (holy trinity of Block/Dodge/S-Hands), and you can give him 2-heads later, for 2+ dodging. This seems to me to be the best system for 2-Heads on the Skaven players - wait until they get Dodge first, then give them 2-Heads one or two skills later (in this way you can dodge them early in the turn at minimal risk). I have not tried Guard on the AV7 Skaven players. Guard implies that the player will stay around in the scrum to be hit, I don't like that with AV7, so I stick with the 3 Guard players (Stormvermin + Troll). If you are keen on Guard, it might be a better choice on a player who has Blodge already (I have 2 Blodge/Guard Stormvermin currently, they are outstanding, one has 2-Heads as well). So Guard after Dodge in the Thrower's case (not a choice I have yet had to make - Sidestep would be the main competitor).

Hope that helps.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Ullis »

Wrestle for the linerat and then fire the -MA, niggled linerat. I don't see how Kick is a good skill for Underworld as they have so few rats and so good skill access. If you're threatening throwing a goblin if you get a Blitz!, then you can't put your troll on the los. And that threat is also present whenever you get Blitz!, with or without a kicker.

Dodge or MB (followed by Claw and Block) for the thrower. Dodge makes him a better ball carrier but +ST already makes the other thrower a pretty solid ball carrier on offence.

Also that +AG, Big Hand gobbo has to go. -ST, niggle and stunty is a really awful combination. Big Hand is a defensive skill and Underworld generally can't afford to have to protect any one player. +AG makes him a high priority target for the opposition anyway so they're probably happy to blitz him off the pitch (it doesn't take much...)

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Smeborg »

Ullis wrote:Wrestle for the linerat and then fire the -MA, niggled linerat. I don't see how Kick is a good skill for Underworld as they have so few rats and so good skill access. If you're threatening throwing a goblin if you get a Blitz!, then you can't put your troll on the los. And that threat is also present whenever you get Blitz!, with or without a kicker.
I generally don't put the Troll on the line. I feel he's better in second line where not only can he threaten to lob a Gobbo, but he can threaten to blitz high ST/high AV players with his Claw, or deliver his Guard/S-Firm/Tentacles where needed.

My Underworld Kicker is generally a key target for my opponents, so it would appear that I am not the only one who thinks the skill works well on this team. As I said, you can go Wrestle then Kick if you want, I don't consider that order wrong, it might be better if the environmnent is particularly bashy.

[Edit: Ullis, I do find Kick useful for Blitzes, because Kick means you have some influence over where the ball falls. For example, if you kick deep, get a Blitz, then manage to lob a Gobbo who catches the ball, you are in a strong position if your opponent has been lazy in his set-up. For example, the Thrower may have to blitz the Gobbo, and so on.]

All the best.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Lunchab1es »

I find that matches involving underworld tend to be quite dynamic and relatively high scoring on both sides (as compared to many teams which favor the grund), so you are likely to get to use kick more often, increasing its relative value.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by greymurphy42 »

I took dodge & kick, but unfortunately they're both dead now! I kicked the busted goblin before my latest match, which was against Halflings, and had 2 more deaths and 2 SI after those two. My 2 heads/horns goblin was eaten by the troll and a rookie goblin died. The blodge blitzer was saved from death by the apoth, the troll suffered an -AG and a rookie goblin was MNG. I had a bye the match after and enough cash to replace everyone, so everyone's available for my next match. The team currently looks like this:-

Troll - claw, guard, stand firm (44)
Blitzer - guard, mighty blow (18)
Blitzer - dodge, guard (20)
Thrower
Thrower - block, leader, +ST (45)
Lineman
Lineman - wrestle, horns, tackle, -MA, nig (31)
2*Goblin - wrestle (6 & 10)
5*Goblin

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Jeremiah Kool »

(thought I necro this because:)

My Thrower rolled a double 5 for his first skill, I gave him +MA but am a little unsure about it. The reason is it´s a short season (10-12 games, then hopefully semi-final and final) and I have played six games in an open format. The competition is Undead (very good Ghouls with +STR and + AG), Human (lots of Mighty Blow, four Catcher mostly Blodge), Dark Elves (typical Delves I guess) and others (maybe Norse, High Elf or Orc). Not a lot of Tackle on those teams IIRC.

I guess my Thrower will get a second skill, third one will be somewhat hard to achieve. And I don´t want him to hog all the SPP. I really like +MA but with Dodge he´d be more protected (and later Blodge). The team will get canned after the season. WWYD?

Team is here:
http://www.ufobnbb.de/ufobnbb/daten/bad ... roster.htm

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by plasmoid »

I'd go Dodge.
When the skaven get smacked to the dug-out then team performance really suffers. You need to protect your rats.
On top of that, Dodge is an excellent skill for the running game.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Jeremiah Kool »

Right, especially with such a short season. I´ll have to decide until tomorrow. :) I feel Dodge is good advice with more protection and running game. Guess I´ll go that way.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by mattgslater »

Unless you're jumping up and down with joy over +MA, you should usually take a skill on double-5. There are some exceptions, but this doesn't really feel like one of them. On a 6+4, I'd seriously consider it. MA would be nice on this guy, on par with the best normal skills, worthy of taking. On this team, OTOH, with all its Dodge players to divert attention, doubles on Dodge is always a good call, shoot for force multiplier.

Don't build for potential, with the exception of +ST and +AG. Build for now. If you come back and roll 6+4 again, maybe you'll feel the tiniest twinge of guilt at bypassing MA9, but then you'll remember you have a Sure Hands Wardancer, and just smile a little.

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by The Dazzler »

Interesting read gentlemen. I'm planning on an Underworld team next for a short league (max 8 games)

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Re: Underworld advice

Post by Smeborg »

TBH, I'm not sure which is better on an Underworld Thrower, +1MA or Dodge. +1MA is outstanding in practice. While Dodge is decent on the Skaven players, it makes you want to take 2-Heads as well, thus you should be aware that you are taking up 2 skill picks, taking the player quite a long way away from what you might have planned. That's my experience anyway, I feel that Dodge is a relatively quiet pick.

All the best.

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