Slann development question

[Smeborg]

Sandwich - yes, I will consider retiring him when he returns from the froggy hospital. I am rather alergic to permanent injuries on my rosters.

Hitogonashi - yes, I have thought about NoS on the AG5 Catcher. One of our coaches tried it in a league and considered it a failure. I think that's because it is a rarely used situational skill (once per game if you are lucky, perhaps), whereas something like Guard (or Block for that matter) is not only multi-use, but of general use in many situations. He's a good coach, I trust his finding.

Thanks, good questions.

[Ullis]

I'd think twice about Guard on the +AG catcher. While Guard on the catchers is a great skill, it sets him too far back. I took Guard on a +ST catcher and it simply didn't work out. Getting that catcher to blodge was just taking too long and without blodge the catcher was getting pummeled despite +ST. The getting pummeled part eventually solved the problem. In the end, there was no synergy between Guard and +ST. I thought taking Guard on the catchers on doubles was a no-brainer but I found out I was wrong.

Any +AG slann catcher needs Sure Hands (or maybe passing skills) as they have simply great synergy with +AG. You'll never get to them if you take Guard on him now.

Guard on the catchers is so useful due to 2+ dodges and 2+ leaps. You don't really need +AG for that. Dodging is a bit easier but that's usually not an issue for getting the Guard where you really need it.

[Kikurasis]

On a +AG catcher, on doubles I would definitely take Safe Throw. The Slann (I've noticed) are slippery (mobile) but have low-ish movement. To maximize that, I'd love it if I could pass over the opponent with a 1/36 chance to be intercepted instead of 1/6.

[Smeborg]

On a +AG catcher, on doubles I would definitely take Safe Throw. The Slann (I've noticed) are slippery (mobile) but have low-ish movement. To maximize that, I'd love it if I could pass over the opponent with a 1/36 chance to be intercepted instead of 1/6.

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that.

[Overhamsteren]

Was gonna suggest pass or block or sure hands but safe throw sounds very helpful too.

Wrestle on linemen with guard on a no-blitzer/krox team would also be my choice, it's more of a skill to go in and help push back the opponent than to stand in a scrum and limit 2d blocks.

[Ullis]

I think Safe Throw really falls in the same category as Pass Block. Great skill when you happen to get a chance to use it in a game but there's always better skills to take. Maybe as a last skill on some throwers but that's theory bowl really.

And at least you should never take Safe Throw unless you have Pass first.

[huff]

O yeah.. No way I'm taking the double on a +AG catcher until 76. It's a shame to pass it up but it's because of Slann not starting with any core skills. The +Ag needs dodge and sure hands off top. And you would have to skip block at 51 for guard or a skill like pass, both of which are great but Slann need so much because they start with so little. I suppose this ties into the original post and not being able to fit tackle in (early anyways).

[Kikurasis]

And at least you should never take Safe Throw unless you have Pass first.

I disagree completely. Pass is just a reroll, and you can burn a TRR on it, if needed. With AG5, you have a 2/2/3/4 for passing, so even a short pass is just a 2+. I'd rather open up the ability to ignore interceptions. A short pass over some opponent players (assuming a 6 needed to intercept and going to another catcher) would be a 5/6 pass, 5/6 not intercepted, 5/6 caught. That's 125/216, not counting TRR -- or 58%. With pass, it's a 35/36 pass, but with safe throw it's a 35/36 not intercepted -- exactly the same odds, except you are preventing the interception better. Either of them is 875/1296, so taking either puts you at 67.5% (before TRR). With the TRR, it should be 6125/7776, or 78.8% (assuming no catch skill).

I just prefer if it's going to mess up, it not be in the hands on the opponent.

[Shteve0]

That logic looks sound. Good work - and nicely presented.

[Smeborg]

I am 99% certain I will take Safe Throw. Many are the times already that I would have loved to have it. Pass interceptions are the bane of the Slann offense, which is otherwise very strong. Safe Throw fits very well with AG5 and Dodge. And I confirm that when the ball spills, you don't want it in the hands of the opponent - anywhere else and you have a chance (not to mention a possible second go with Diving Catch if the pass is inaccurate). I repeat my thanks to Kikurasis for his suggestion, which was hiding from me in plain sight.

All the best.

[Shteve0]

You mean Safe Throw, right...?

[Hitonagashi]

not to mention a possible second go with Diving Catch if the pass is inaccurate).

An AG 5 inaccurate pass?

That's a rather specific use-case...

The only issue I have with Kikurasis's logic is that it assumes you will always have a team RR available for the pass. If you don't have a team RR, or would prefer not to rely on one, the odds of both are identical (as it's then a 35/36 to pass instead of avoid interception), and pass is superior where you can avoid throwing it over opposition players.

To look at this another way:
Long Pass (3+) + pass = 8/9*5/6 = 74% with no RR available.

It's better to take a long pass with pass that doesn't involve an interception than it is a short pass with an interception.

I would personally take pass, as I find that more than half of the time, I can move to avoid an interception at the expense of a longer passing range band.

[Kikurasis]

I'd agree with you -- if this wasn't Slann. I don't know about anyone else, but I go with 5 TRRs to start. And after playing them a full season, I have to say I wouldn't do a passing game and would basically move the box/cage past the defence by leaping the ones that couldn't dodge/hit their way out. Doing this, I wouldn't run receivers far from the cage. This has two reasons:

1) a screen around the cage means it's harder to break through and tag players, allowing the cage to march up
2) having the receivers very close to the cage allowed rearranging (for lack of a better term) of players to rotate the cage and move it slowly

I can see where I'd take Pass over Safe Throw on a team that sent out receivers. But, I play Slann like an Amazon team that has less hitting skills to start (supplemented by the high amount of TRRs), so a shorter pass over opponents usually is about the same as leaping and handing off. All comes down to style.

[Smeborg]

You mean Safe Throw, right...?

Yes, of course, post since edited.

[Sandwich]

Not a lot of love for Nerves of Steel, which I find a bit surprising.

Surely this player would be awesome at leaping in - once you've popped the ball from a cage - grabbing it ni a couple of tackle zones, and lobbing it clear.

I'm not going to get mathsy - not had enough sleep for that - but even AG5 is going to suffer throwing the ball in a couple of tackle zones (fumble on a 3/3/3/4 ??).

Or take HMP for a similar tactic.