Worst. Advice. Ever.

[narg]

The fact that most players don't take a certain skill doesn't make it a bad skill necessarily. The majority tend to flock to the same type of skills and play-styles in any sort of game system through inertia. Thinking outside of that box is a healthy thing to do though and it helps if you can think for yourself, rather than just regurgitate stuff that conforms to what the majority think!

Look, the crux of the problem is that most teams don't play a passing game. If the opponent doesn't throw the ball, you can't intercept. It's as simple as that.

And even if you have a passing game you can move away from the passblocker, blitz him or make a hand-off. And there's safe throw as well.

A lot of beginners start by playing a passing game and then, after realizing that it's less efficient and that they're losing their games, change styles and just run the ball. What you're describing is not some new "outside the box" thinking, it's a rookie mistake. I'll repeat what I said in another thread, to win at Blood Bowl, you have to fail less that your opponent. A great way to make sure that you're not going to fail your pass is to just not throw the ball. So you run it, and nobody can intercept. Hence pass block is useless. Hence this "Worst advice ever" thread, with a suggestion to take pass block as first entry.

You also completely ignore the scenarios that I outlined

Well, the first one mentions a chaos team using pass block to make an intercept, see where I'm coming from...

I've used Pass Block successfully 5 times and usually score from it.

If it keeps going like that I'm really going to give Leap to a snow troll, just to prove that once every twenty games or so even the most stupid skill choice can be a game changer and make you win...

[DoubleSkulls]

If it keeps going like that I'm really going to give Leap to a snow troll, just to prove that once every twenty games or so even the most stupid skill choice can be a game changer and make you win...

Which is exactly the point. Almost every skill can be useful sometimes and let you win games, good skills are useful more often and let you win more games.

Maybe we should have a competition to find the skill that is never useful... Pass on Minotaur?

[Hitonagashi]

Maybe we should have a competition to find the skill that is never useful... Pass on Minotaur?

Break Tackle on a snotling

[Smurf]

If you want a truly useless skill combo: Treeman with Dauntless.

But the thread was not about absurdities.

Pass Block works not just by moving to intercept but changes the way your opponent plays.

I have played games where it has stalled and the ball needs to be thrown to score a winning TD or Equaliser. Suddenly the PBer becomes the threat.

AG4+ PB is a real threat, where less than it is a minor threat. Catch makes it good too.

There are different styles of play and it is to appreciate them. Like many have stated 'do we face a 2:1 grind' or thinking outside the box help break it...

[B SIDE]

A Slann Catcher with Block and Dodge could do much worse than Pass Block as his third skill. (Having two such players would hardly be a waste of TV. Especially if the team sports the Kick skill.)

[danton]

Look, the crux of the problem is that most teams don't play a passing game. If the opponent doesn't throw the ball, you can't intercept. It's as simple as that.

So in the millions of games that you've played on TT and on the web, a bashy team has never passed the ball to score, or extricate themselves from a tricky situation? Either that means you never put them under enough pressure when defending, or you have a "convenient" memory! An orc team has a half decent thrower after a couple of skills and I often see high TV Chaos teams with a ball handler beast that has some passing skills. This doesn't mean that those teams play a passing game at all, but it means they have a contingency plan for when their running and bashing fails them. This is where pass block comes into play against them. It is up to you to force them into those situations where a pass is the only way out.

And even if you have a passing game you can move away from the passblocker, blitz him or make a hand-off. And there's safe throw as well.

Of course - but this is all adding to the meta game and throwing more variables into the equation which is what you want. If they are forced into blitzing the pass blocker then they are not blitzing someone else that is potentially more important to remove that turn (someone with a TZ on the ball carrier or the receiver for instance).

A lot of beginners start by playing a passing game and then, after realizing that it's less efficient and that they're losing their games, change styles and just run the ball. What you're describing is not some new "outside the box" thinking, it's a rookie mistake. I'll repeat what I said in another thread, to win at Blood Bowl, you have to fail less that your opponent. A great way to make sure that you're not going to fail your pass is to just not throw the ball. So you run it, and nobody can intercept. Hence pass block is useless. Hence this "Worst advice ever" thread, with a suggestion to take pass block as first entry.

Again you are taking things out of context. No one but you is talking about using Pass Block to defeat beginners who pass the ball willy nilly. This is about having a skill that adds variables to the equation that the opponent has to solve during his turn. It's as simple as that. Sure, the skill often will have no impact, like many other skills, but there will be times that it will make all the difference to the result of the game, regardless of the opponent. You may never have seen it, but I certainly have, as have others on here.

Well, the first one mentions a chaos team using pass block to make an intercept, see where I'm coming from...

You can do far worse than give Pass Block to a Chaos beastman ball carrier build as a late development skill. A beast with Extra Arms and Pass Block along with Prehensile tail, or Disturbing presence can be very useful when not carrying the ball.

[Ullis]

[A beast with Extra Arms and Pass Block along with Prehensile tail, or Disturbing presence can be very useful when not carrying the ball.

A beastman with Block, MB, Piling On and Claws would most likely be better.

So would Block, MB, Piling On, Tackle.

Or Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Tackle.

It's easy to think of scenarios where any skill would be awesome. But most likely they're rare.

Kicking deep and sending players to the opponents half of the pitch. Dodge will get you there in the first place and after you're there, Block or Wrestle would serve you better there. And those skills are useful even if you can't stop the opponent caging up in the middle.

Think about your own dark elf runner, the one with Pass, NoS and Accurate. What if instead of those skills the runner had Block, Dodge and Side step? If you don't have any blocking skills, then you pretty much have to dump off the ball even against a 1-d block with Block. With Blodge, you can let the opponent roll the dice in vain looking for the POW. If a POW comes up (worse odds than you failing the dump off and the resulting catch), you get to decide where you get knocked down.

[DoubleSkulls]

I have played games where it has stalled and the ball needs to be thrown to score a winning TD or Equaliser. Suddenly the PBer becomes the threat.

And in how many games did PB do nothing at all? This isn't a question of whether PB is of no value at all - obviously it is - but whether other skills have a better impact on your ability to win games.

[spubbbba]

I’ve played over 1100 games online and in that time I’ve managed 26 interceptions and been intercepted 26 times, a couple of those were last turn passes for a slim chance of 1 spp as well.

I’ve also spectated at least as many games and in all that time I’ve only ever seen passblock be used a handful of times. A friend even made a pro elf team that took passblock 1st skill and he didn’t manage a single interception despite being a very good player.

As others have stated there is always a better skill to take than passblock particularly for elves. Block or wrestle, dodge, sidestep, tackle, diving tackle, fend are all more useful and that’s not even factoring in doubles and stats.

Good players rarely pass the ball unless it is safe to do so and even then it will probably only be a desperation manoeuvre.

[narg]

I’ve played over 1100 games online and in that time I’ve managed 26 interceptions and been intercepted 26 times, a couple of those were last turn passes for a slim chance of 1 spp as well.

I’ve also spectated at least as many games and in all that time I’ve only ever seen passblock be used a handful of times. A friend even made a pro elf team that took passblock 1st skill and he didn’t manage a single interception despite being a very good player.

As others have stated there is always a better skill to take than passblock particularly for elves. Block or wrestle, dodge, sidestep, tackle, diving tackle, fend are all more useful and that’s not even factoring in doubles and stats.

Good players rarely pass the ball unless it is safe to do so and even then it will probably only be a desperation manoeuvre.

We should make this a sticky.

[Joemanji]

On FUMBBL I've been intercepted/have intercepted 5/5 times in 225, which is a very similar ratio to spubbbba (about 1 every 45 games).

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Mine is 23 interceptions/11 been intercepted in 852 games. At least you are posting in the right thread danton !

[voyagers_uk]

if what you are saying is that PB is a rubbish skill, I would suggest going back to what I suggested in the early days of the vault (not to mention earlier when I tried to get Tom to say it was ok)

Allow prone players to use PB to attempt interceptions (use the 3 MA to stand up.), allow PB and Jump Up to also work in tandem

passing should be viable in this game or we are just playing Fantasy Rugby League. I love facing off against teams that don't expect me to pass or don't have a contingency to stop me passing... and to be told that building a team for passing is a rookie mistake ( I may be misquoting there) just seems dumb. Passing has amazing skill combos and move the ball faster than running and hand off's alone.

admittedly I may use a passing play once versus 10 running plays, but the opportunity is enough to keep defences honest.

I like PB for other reasons though mainly the movement. I also like to give catchers guard and tackle to give me more options deep in my own half at reaching / impeding the ball carrier...

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Passing where an interception is possible(with or without passblock) is a rookie mistake, generally.
Passing when no-one can intercept is usually OK, but mostly just for spp farming elfs.

[voyagers_uk]

Passing where an interception is possible(with or without passblock) is a rookie mistake, generally.

ok, so I am in with a chance of a win.. the game is in the last turn. my ball carrier is unmarked but has no way to dodge through for the score (unless you count multiple 4+/5+ dodges as a way) My blitz has proven useless to help... I have a receiver downfield in scoring position and I can pass to him for a modified 3+ but the opposition has a 6+ chance to intercept..


I will take that shot everytime. having played this game and won extensively for 20 years I am no rookie, I just think you are generalising a bit too much. Interceptions are unlikely and thus rewarded when they occur. That is not to say they are not possible...