Phoenix Warriors - the 'forgotten' High Elf

[bradw71]

Howdy people. I have a question for all the High Elf guru's out there...

A lot of attention get's paid to Lion Warriors due to their movement with 3 strength and Dragon Warriors due to their block and decent move. But many don't like or recommend the Phoenix Warrior due to it's basic Line Elf stats with the addition of the pass skill for 10K.

Has anyone experienced any success utlising these guys in 'unusual' roles? Any particular combination of skills that makes them particularly good, or are they always 'just the passer' because of their movement?

Thanks,
Brad.

[Deathwing]

They're line-elves with Pass and access to Passing skills. what else would you use them for?

[Grumbledook]

I usually use them to test my fists out on, they make great victims.

[Thor]

I use the PW as my passer on offense (10K is worth the pass skill IMO). On defense I put him deep in my half.

[DoubleSkulls]

Has anyone experienced any success utlising these guys in 'unusual' roles? Any particular combination of skills that makes them particularly good, or are they always 'just the passer' because of their movement?

Don't dish them as "just the passer". Phoenix warrior is the best passer in the game - 10k cheaper than the other Elves and just as good.

One goes accurate and strong arm and you are making bombs on a 3+.

The other NoS and Dump Off for 2+ passes to annoy the hell out of your opponent even if you get flattened.

Ian

[Nermal]

yup those elf passers, they are a pain in the bum.

my friend has on his elf team 2 passers

1 for offence and one defence.

one gets block and dodge, one prays for strong arm dump off etc.

[Remco]

A thrower is the backbone of any strong elven team. With AG4 (with luck AG5) your players can do almost anything on a 2+, EXCEPT THROWING. That's why you need that thrower. With AG4, Accurate and if you're lucky Strong Arm or NoS, he'll be unstoppable at throwing accurate passes. With good coaching, you'll probably only need Short Passes or maybe Long Passes, which are at either 2+ or 3+ if you have accurate. Combined with Pass, you'll be (almost) unstoppable.

One thing to remember: You don't HAVE to pass the ball to a LW or DW, you can also move a loose cage up the field and score with a lineman. Keep your options open.

[Cervidal]

Forget turning them into uber-passers. Throw Sure Hands on them and that's all they need for passing development. If you're depending on long ball to win you a game, you're going ot have problems.

Develop them defensively. Give 'em Blodge and Pass Block and you have all the backfield defense you should need with the team. They're just as capable of being defensive players as any Lineman. If they jar the ball loose, they'll be equipped to pick it up and chuck it to someone who can run with the ball.

[bingbong186]

Why wouldn't anyone take a PW? If you've got the money, they're basically a lineman with a skill already, and a skill which combines well with their AG4. Even if you don't like the throwing game (and if you don't why play High Elves?), they can gain their first skill quite quickly through a few quick passes, and if given sure hands they can be excellent for getting in to a tight spot, grabbing the ball and throwing it somewhere safer.

[DoubleSkulls]

Forget turning them into uber-passers. Throw Sure Hands on them and that's all they need for passing development. If you're depending on long ball to win you a game, you're going ot have problems.

With non-elves you have a good point, but for Elven teams its their great strength. Its not hard to turn a Phoneix Warrior into a 3+ long bomber (one double or +AG). That's a 2+ long pass - with a skill reroll on the pass and probably the catch too. That's a very powerful play that most opponents are going to have a real hard time stopping.

All you need to do when receiving is run a couple (one will get blitzed) LW's into a position to score next turn and sit deep (or safe) with the PW carrying the ball. Then in the next turn clear the opponents off the receiver, throw the long pass make the catch and its a TD. Dead easy and one of the big reasons everyone loves (or hates) elves.

Do not underestimate the difference between a 2+ (2.7% chance of failure), 3+ (11.1%) and 4+ pass (25%).

Ian

[Cervidal]

To spread out an opposing defense, you shouldn't have to throw more than six to nine squares downfield. Get your Phoenix Warrior up near midfield, form him a pocket, and dump the ball downfield in Short Pass range. There's just no need to consistanly throw deep passes on a team capable of running like HE can. If you're depending on long ball, you're going to give the opposition a real chance to intercept more often than you should be.

I'm not knocking Phoenix Warriors at all, don't get me wrong. I simply think they would thrive better as long-term defensive players. I have my own game experience to show me as such.

[Zombie]

With Accurate, Strong arm and Safe throw, you're much safer throwing the 3+ long bomb than forming that pocket of yours, which always has a chance of getting broken. Why play a running game when you have the best passing game of any race? That's not playing to your team's strength.

[bradw71]

I must admit that whilst I am still very much learning, I tend to lean towards the passing game tactic. And I'm glad to hear that is the High Elf strength, because then at least it makes sense!

My first Phoenix Warrior picked up a skill and I gave him accurate. I have now bought a second Phoenix Warrior and I plan on using his advances for one of two things (based on some of the comments received here):

1. Defensive Passer - Block, Dodge and Strip Ball. If I can get him through defensively at the ball carrier, he has a good chance of either applying pressure, or actually getting the ball in the backfield.

2. Defensive Safety - Dodge, Pass Block, Catch. Whilst in my own backfield as defensive safety, if the opposition tries to throw the pass themselves, hopefully he canmove to an intercept position and with catch, he can re-roll the intercept.

Both are what I can consider very advanced tactics, as the skills take a while to get. But I will probably go with the first option as most of the teams I play are strength or running teams, not passers.

[bradw71]

Actually, following that last post...(think before I click...)...

I will probably go for the second option. I have a Dragon Warrior that has picked up Dodge and for my next skill, I would like to get Leap. That makes him a much better attacker of the ball carrier with the skills and better movement to get after it.

So if I go with the pass blocking Phoenix Warrior, then at least if they do decide to pass, I have an option to also stop that rather than being 'caught out' (so to speak )

[Cervidal]

That IS playing to High Elf strengths. HE are armored as well as Humans and are actually, as a team, stronger until you factor in a Big Guy. They're already able to pick up a ball and pass with great proficency right out of the box. Why not work on team defense, which is the usual elf weakness?

Offense alone only gets you so many wins. Blood Bowl is a game of defense. Whoever scores more defensive touchdowns usually wins.