Khemri "generic" development plan - comments welcome

[Smeborg]

I expect to play Khemri in our open league starting in December (runs for a year, I can expect 30 games or so). I have never before played Khemri in a league. Clearly they are not a "normal" side, if such a thing can be said to exist in BB.

After some thought, I have hit on the idea of a "generic" development plan, with skills to be given to every player in the following order:

Block
Tackle
M-Blow
Guard
S-Firm or Fend

Now clearly this would mean differentiation by skill availability, hence:

TGs: M-Blow, Guard, S-Firm
B-Ras: Tackle, M-Blow, Guard, S-Firm
T-Ras: Block, Tackle, Fend
Skellies: Block, Tackle, Fend

The plan blends the following ideas: raw block power (Block, Tackle, Guard), damage (M-Blow), staying standing (no P-On), denial of space (S-Firm, Fend). If players reach (say) 4th normal skill, then some differentiation by position would probably occur. Anyone getting a doubles roll would simply take the next available skill on the list (which might be a normal skill pick). I don't intend at the moment to take the following "team" skills: Leader, Kick, D-Player. Stats: ST on all players, AG on all players except the TGs, MA on the B-Ras and T-Ras, AV on the TGs and Skellies. At the moment I intend to go with an ultimate roster of 14 players and 3 RRs (it seems to me that low TV is one of the few advantages of the team, and should be emphasised), but I will be guided by events if it seems I need more RRs or players. If someone gets +AG early, they will likely become the Runner of the team, one of the underlying thoughts suggesting a "generic" development plan. For example, a B-Ra with +AG would make a much better Runner than a T-Ra. It also seems to me that the T-Ras are valuable utility players, especially on defense, and it may pay to develop them as such.

Comments, encouragement, abuse, whatever, all welcome, especially from any brave pioneers with the Khemri team.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

Further thoughts on Khemri: they are the Russian Army of Blood Bowl - crude but effective. Subtlety is probably not their strong point. Every player needs to be able to look after himself in one-on-one blocking situations, since dodging will not often be a good option. Hence the idea to go Block, Tackle on everybody.

[plasmoid]

I agree with your thinking.
As I said in my playbook, this team is more about control than about bash.

That being said, I'd prioritize fend over tackle on the skellies and throras.
I also think leader on one throra is worth it - it's a big TV discount.
Finally, I think at least one of the blitzras should get piling on. Sometimes you restrict your opponents options a lot by removing some of his players

[Chosen Warrior]

If anyone should ever take Leader, it's the Khemri (and Pact): 70k rerolls and P access, that's a 50k discount!

In general I do like your plan, nothing fancy, sticking to the basics and keeping the TV low. Solid, efficient Blood Bowl. Unless it's done by dwarves.

...maybe a Break tackle on just one TG should you happen to need a ST 5 Blitz? Give yourself some options. And mix in just one or maybe two Wrestle in there somewhere, if only for taking down blodgers. Every time a blodging ballcarrier gets 2 dice blocked and doesn't go down a baby gets killed. Think of the children!

[Smeborg]

Thanks, Martin, for your handy advice. I will follow some of it, but not all. Specifically, I will take Leader, I won't take P-On (unless forced to by league dynamics, but this hasn't happened to me yet), and I will take Fend on the Skellies before Tackle, but Tackle on the Thro-Ras before Fend (I think the team needs more than 2 Tacklers). I'll let you know how I get on.

Chosen Warrior - I agree that B-Tackle may be quite good on the TGs, but I don't see it as an early skill, and it's of limited use without complementary skills (Block, Tackle, Wrestle, Tentacles etc.). I am prioritising a bit of Tackle to take care of some of the Blodgers. On Leader, I agree.

Overall, I'm trying to come up with a development plan that matches the Khemri style of play, which can best be described as "anything but fancy".

All the best.

[Ullis]

I don't really see why you want to avoid taking Piling On and Dirty Player. Removing opposing players, and even the threat of doing it, helps a lot with the controlling aspect of the game.

Based on the Nurgle thread you seem to have an aversion to killing players or at least you seem to view killing every opposing player a suboptimal strategy. Maybe it's something you should work on.

[Joemanji]

Kickoff Return is a must-have on at least one Thro-Ra. An accurate kick can ruin Khemri, and you need something to deal with that. WEs with Kick will give you a lot of trouble otherwise.

Break Tackle is a good pick on TGs. With MA4 you can control the pitch more than old Khemri, who only had damage going for them. A ST5 player is something your opponent generally has to go around.

[Smeborg]

Joe - my limited experience of Khemri suggests that you need to expect to fail the first pick-up, therefore it's better to pick up the ball in the middle of a pre-formed cage. Kick-off Return seems of limited use for this. This seems to be a point of difference for Khemri (normally I am a fan of Kick-off Return).

I agree that Break Tackle is a good skill on high ST players. But I wonder if it isn't a bit subtle for Khemri. If a TG is standing next to something, maybe it suits the Khemri playstyle better to just whack it. When it comes to blitzing (say) a ST2 player with Dodge, a Blitz-Ra with Tackle can dodge and blitz with slightly better success than a TG with Break Tackle (this ignores other uses of the skill, of course).

Chosen Warrior - I am a fan of Wrestle, but the more I play with and against it, the more I am convinced that there are minimum stat requirements on a player for Wrestle to work properly. Those requirements are MA6+ and AG3+, preferably something a bit better (say AG skill access, MA7/8/9, AG4, skills such as Jump Up, Horns, Leap etc.). For slow linos, especially on a slow team, Block has the merit of keeping the player standing.

All the best.

[Joemanji]

Joe - my limited experience of Khemri suggests that you need to expect to fail the first pick-up, therefore it's better to pick up the ball in the middle of a pre-formed cage. Kick-off Return seems of limited use for this. This seems to be a point of difference for Khemri (normally I am a fan of Kick-off Return).

That's completely true, and is kinda the point. But if WEs etc. kick near the corner, you don't have the speed to form a cage that far back. Even if you manage to get that far back, you are starting your drive 23 squares from the endzone. So you have to mitigate against that event.

[mattgslater]

Even if you manage to get that far back, you are starting your drive 23 squares from the endzone. So you have to mitigate against that event.

This. I'm totally with Joe on the critical urgency of Kickoff Return. It's also nice to build lines that can push either way; having TGs to string along means you can often force the pass rush to take the long way 'round, but still, it's nice to be able to deliver the ball near to the cage.

[Joemanji]

If you can get under the ball, it also gives you a 33% chance of catching it and so avoiding the pivotal moment of danger on any Khemri drive. I once failed 15 pickups in a single drive with Khemri (it was raining, but it can rain in your games too!). Luckily I was only facing 2 Ogres having killed everything else in the first half, but had it been the first half I would have lost.

Getting that free catch attempt raises the odds of getting the ball before your opponent can get to you from 75% to 83%.

[Ullis]

You have to expect to fail the second pick up (and third etc.) as well. There's no point in putting up a half-cage in your own back pitch if no opponent can reach that far in the first turn. On the other hand, if the kick is shallow, then Kick-off return is of less use.

[Smeborg]

Maybe K-Ret on both Throw-Ras is an answer? I might try that.

I have one little idea, which is to give Leader to the first Skellie to roll doubles. It only costs 1 point of TV compared to giving it to a Throw-Ra. The Thro-Ras are then free to take more interesting and universal skills.

A main concern for me is having a plan in which only 2 players will get Tackle as an early skill. I just don't feel that will cut the mustard.

[Joemanji]

I think it is optimistic to imagine a situation where any (let alone several) Skeletons have more than one skill.

[plasmoid]

Tackle is great.
But sometimes 3-dice blocks will fill in just fine.

And take leader on the ThroRa already. Doubles on skellies should be used to push your strength advantage with guard. IMO.