Skaven level-ups

[klauser]

A little update on my Skaven side and a few skill-up and inducement questions for my fellow Skaven coaches:

SV - rookie [normal roll]
SV - Guard, MB, Tackle
Thrower - Block, Accurate
GR - +ST, Block, Tackle, Side Step, [normal roll]
GR - Guard, Block, Side Step, -MV
GR - +MV, Side Step, Block
GR - rookie
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Wrestle, [normal roll]
Linerat - Wrestle, -AV
Linerat - Block
Linerat - rookie x2

4 RR
Apo

So my AG5 ST1 GR died (fouled to death by a Halfing no less), while my ST3 GR reached Stardom (lvl 6). I was thinking Shadowing or DT to go with this Side Step, but then I really don't like leaving him in base contact with any ST3+ piece. Leap would still be nice, but is likely to cause his swift demise. Now I'm tending towards Jump Up or Sure Feet. Too bad he did not roll a double.

The remaining two skill-ups are less exciting. However, I will be facing three Orc teams in a row (followed by a Dwarf side), so I have to plan accordingly. Probably Guard on the SV and Tackle or Dauntless on the Wrestle Linerat. Frenzy somewhere would be nice too.

As an aside, I will have 540k of inducements against the first Orc team. How about Wizard, Babe and Headsplitter? I could also sack the -AV, Wrestle Linerat and go with Wizard and Morg. Alternatively, I could go with a Merc Rat Ogre with Juggernaut, since he has a bunch of Stand Firm pieces, and round it out with Apo, Babe and Wizard.

[Hitonagashi]

Have you considered Glart against Orcs? His claw can really make the difference..if you go men up, or just manage to remove an annoying tackle mb blitzer, it can make all the difference.

Shadowing would be really nice on him...he's not easy to blitz clear!

[dines]

You don't have to leave the star gutter in base contact to get some use out of dt/shadowing, just place him where the opponent want to run through.. And he will be a target no matter what

[MKL]

Have you considered Fend for the Linerat?
With 3 Orcs and a Dwarf incoming, your lines are going to make a lot of screen duty.

Alternatively, there is Frenzy. A bit risky, but back in my Khemri days I found that a cheap, expendable frenzy lineman can be a real asset. That is, if you think that Linerat is expendable, of course.

[klauser]

Heh what is expendable if not a linerat.

The reason I'm disregarding Fend here, is because I'd rather put unskilled cannon fodder rats on the LOS against those bashers. The Wrestle rat could do something more useful instead.

I really like the idea of Frenzy on a Linerat, too. However, I only have two Tacklers so far and the Orcs actually have more Dodge than my own team (Dodge on two BOBs, one Blitzer and two Goblins). So I'm undecided between Frenzy and Tackle for the Wrestle Liner.

Any more thoughts on the ST3 Gutter Runner?

[TalonBay]

Wrestle + Fend is a great combo. It's a real pain for the opponent as it slows down the grind when they hit him and often frees up the player without having to make a dodge next turn. I'd go with that, I've only had one linerat reach that skill set and was very happy with him, he's template for all my future linerats (except the kick ones).

I think frenzy is most useful on blitzing pieces and I've always got a player who's not a linerat to blitz with so I'd pass on that.

One option for the +st GR is strip-ball, it does make your opponents think about who's carrying the ball but if they've plenty of sure-hands then possibly not worth it. Leap, Diving Tackle and shadowing are all good choices for him too.

[Ullis]

Leap is great for ST3 gutter runners. It forces the opponent to position with much more care on offence. That slows him down and means he has to commit more players to the cage and that's good for your rats who'll get hit less.

[mattgslater]

Gutter Runner has a lot of options. I see your concerns re: Leap, Shadowing, and DT. Have you considered Fend? Pro is another good option for him; since he's ST3/Blockle, you're often going to make critical 1d or 2d hits. Pro will really help with that sort of thing: lots of perms that fail but don't turn over. Strip Ball is another option, but against Orcs, it's basically a half-assed Mighty Blow, in that it lets him hit the Thrower rather than a Blitzer. Pro is better, situationally speaking. If he makes it to 176, then you give him Leap and Pro increases dramatically in value!

Guard for the rookie Vermin. You need all the Guard you can get if you're to see three consecutive Orc teams. Dauntless for the Wrestle guy, though Fend is credible too.

Have you thought about taking an AC/CL? Skaven get the best possible value from those, better than even money on TRRs. Expensive TRRCs (60k) on a speed team that tends to play more drives than other teams. There are other factors. Specifically:

1) The coming opponents. How many of them are carrying 4+ TRRs already? Orcs have the same RR value as you, and you can expect a relatively high number of drives, given that your sudden takeaways will lead to scores, and pressure will be a big part of the game. If your opponent is at 3 or fewer TRRs and has less FF than you, denial is important and AC/CLs are great. If not, maybe not.

2) Your FF. If your FF is low and your opponents' FF is not, you have a chance of giving up +2 FAME, and should avoid AC/CLs. If your opponents' FF is within 2 of yours, or both teams have more than 4 or 5 FF, AC/CLs are better, because FAME ±1 is likely.

[klauser]

Have you thought about taking an AC/CL? Skaven get the best possible value from those, better than even money on TRRs. Expensive TRRCs (60k) on a speed team that tends to play more drives than other teams. There are other factors. Specifically:

1) The coming opponents. How many of them are carrying 4+ TRRs already? Orcs have the same RR value as you, and you can expect a relatively high number of drives, given that your sudden takeaways will lead to scores, and pressure will be a big part of the game. If your opponent is at 3 or fewer TRRs and has less FF than you, denial is important and AC/CLs are great. If not, maybe not.

2) Your FF. If your FF is low and your opponents' FF is not, you have a chance of giving up +2 FAME, and should avoid AC/CLs. If your opponents' FF is within 2 of yours, or both teams have more than 4 or 5 FF, AC/CLs are better, because FAME ±1 is likely.

So, my FF is 10, the Orcs have 7, 8 and 4 (but 3/3 on AC/CL) respectively. RRs are at 4, 5 and 3 for them.

I guess it depends whether I fire the Wrestle, -AV Linerat, since I would have an odd amount of inducements anyway in that case. 30k to be exact, so either 2/1 or 1/2 AC/CL. Is that worth it?

[mattgslater]

Meh. Never buy more than one of either, but one of each would be okay. That's right on the line: do it if you run out of RRs a lot, and don't if you don't.

[klauser]

Alright, time for a little recap:

- For my blitzing ST3 Gutter Runner, I went unconventional and gave him Wrestle, even though he already had Block. He is my ball hunter and I felt this choice would increase his flexibility and take-down odds. I would have gone for Strip Ball, if I weren't facing tons of Sure Hands in the matches to come. Wrestle already paid off against my first Orc opponent, as I Wrestled down the ball carrier and Blocked and BH'ed a pesky AG4 Goblin on another occasion.

- Speaking of the match against the Orcs, I had 540k of inducements and went with: Wizard, Apo, Babe, Merc Rat Ogre with Juggernaut. Reason for the latter were the 5 Stand Firm pieces on the opposing team. In the end, I won 4-1. We were tied 1-1 after the first half. I received 2nd half, scored in two turns. Then I broke his drive twice, thanks to a Blitz! and a juicy Fireball, respectively. The RO did quite well, crowd-surfing a SF Black Orc and a Thrower and tying up the nasty Tackle MB Blitzer.

- To top things off, my rookie GR levelled up and rolled a 12, so now I'm back to two ST3 Gutter Runners (after I had one die on a snake eyes dodge last season). This one will definitely get Wrestle next (provided he lives that long), followed by Tackle, Strip Ball and Leap.

- I'm now leading the table with a 5-1-1 record and 4 matches to go, against Orcs, Dwarves, Orcs and Necros. I probably need two wins out of these four matches to secure a top3 finish in order to advance to the 1st Division.

Here's my updated roster:

SV - Guard
SV - Guard, MB, Tackle
Thrower - Block, Accurate
GR - +ST, Block, Tackle, Side Step, Wrestle
GR - Guard, Block, Side Step, -MV
GR - +MV, Side Step, Block
GR - +ST
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Wrestle, Dauntless
Linerat - Wrestle, -AV
Linerat - Block
Linerat - rookie x3

4 RR
Apo
TV 1800

[mattgslater]

Lookin' good.

I can't second-guess the Wrestle pick. Twice in the last 20 games I've lost somebody, and I lost a game about 50 games ago, because a non-Block player took a both-down against my Wrestler and I opted for the turnover/AV rolls.

[klauser]

My one-turner GR levelled and rolled a double. There are so many nice skíll options and I can't really decide what to give him.
So far he has: 10 2 4 7 - Dodge, Block, Side Step

Some of the possible skills:
- Sprint - ignore the double and create some OTS potential outside chain pushes, followed by Sure Feet at 76spp
- Two Heads - always nice to get place and very useful when the opp lines up along the end zone to stop the OTS
- Leap - similar use as Two Heads but feels inferior
- Big Hand/X-Arms - he always plays on D and these mutations would help with picking up a spilled ball
- Guard - just because mobile Guard assists are so good; I already have Guard on one GR (with -MV though) and it has been key to the team's success

What would you do?

Here's the complete roster:

SV - Guard
SV - Guard, MB, Tackle
Thrower - Block, Accurate, X-Arms
GR - +ST, Block, Tackle, Side Step, Wrestle
GR - Guard, Block, Side Step, -MV
GR - +MV, Side Step, Block, [double roll pending]
GR - +ST
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Block
Linerat - rookie x3
Linerat - rookie, -AG

4 RR
Apo
TV 1800

[Da_Great_MC]

Two Heads for a more reliable OTS. You'll need to rely on the OTS in those games were you get bashed away.