Norse 'Catchers', explain them to me

[Dr. Von Richten]

7 3 3 7, Block, Dauntless, GA/SP. I do not understand this player at all.

First: Why did they stop being true Catchers (Block and Catch) and became essentially Runners? Having Throwers and Runners on the same team seems redundant (or rather, makes the Throwers even more useless). It also breaks the symmetry with Humans and Amazons.

Second: If they are Runners, Why Dauntless? It's an offensive blocking skill, and blocking is something you don't want to do with someone holding the ball (like a runner is supposed to do). Why not Sure Hands, Dodge, Sidestep or Dump Off?

Third: If they actually aren't Runners (despite the name) but Blitzers, why the Agility access? It doesn't synchronize with offense (Dauntless) much. Also, having 3 different Kinds of Blitzers (true Blitzers, Ulfwereners and these 'Catchers') seems kind of pointless.

Fourth: Whatever they are Catchers or Runners or Blitzers or something else, what are you supposed to do with them; how do they earn their keep? And how to develop them?

Fifth: Given these 'Catchers' do Norse Throwers have any place at all on the team? The only use I can see for them is taking Leader, but since that's only a 20k TV save (Thrower + Leader = 90k, Lineman + Team Reroll is 110k) and it doesn't make the player better, I don't think it's worth it.

[Smurf]

Give it Catch, Dodge, Surefeet and Sprint.

All those speedy AG skills.

So when your offence is being trashed by some narly lot you can score the TD quickly to avoid that drive's beating.

Is that ok?

[pauli42]

I think its a norse team design thing, every piece should start with Block and then add a positional skill but not the first common pick. You can add Catch to have your Catcher, but u also make him a Blitzer or the perfect Runner with Sure Hands, Dodge, Fend and Side Step. But again i think its more the extra norse fluff, adding dauntless to a catcher/runner piece and it works well if u have to blitz an BOB to get free *G*..its norse style!

[sunnyside]

The Norse catcher used to be called a Runner.

However the model has that mitt thing, and I think when they created the "competition rules" they were trying to align better with the models.

Hence why the runners were renamed catchers.

And the Ulfwerener were renamed Norse Werewolfs (so you'd used the BB werewolfs and just paint 'em white or something)

And the Snow Troll was renamed Yhette (so you'd use the Ogre Kingdoms Yhette)

As for the model itself, I think it fits well fluff wise with Norse. The dauntless capturing the crazy violent tendencies of Norse but showing consideration towards wanting to move the ball as opposed to getting wrapped up in a pile of opponents with Frenzy.

In practice I don't use it a ton, however I do occasionally find it useful for either making blocks on S4 players to free up our few actual S4 players for something else, for being able to blitz a S4 player out of the way and get into the endzone, and just the occasional use here and there. But much of the strategy of blood bowl is minimizing rolls, so often it won't see all that much use, and so I think the Norse "catcher" is a bit overpriced.

However they are still worth it. They are decent ball carriers. But agility access is all around precious and useful on the team. Blodging sidestep is good stuff, and there are plenty of skills that would be fun to take after that. This makes them very useful on defence as well as offence when they aren't carrying the ball.

Really, access to an agility positional is the advantage Norse are supposed to have compared to true bash teams. If you find yourself not using them, you'd probably be better off with a true bash team.

I don't think Norse throwers are overly popular. However Norse have problems at higher TVs, and I think throwers might be useful there as a way to unload the ball when the cage has collapsed such that dodging or a handoff just isn't going to cut it. So I think the next Norse team I go for will have a thrower with accurate and nerves of steel. Maaaaaybe dump off.

Diving catch on the runners is a little tempting, but I'm still generally in the defense first camp, and Norse lineme and zerks are decent enough at catching the ball. And the Norse running game is good enough I don't think you'd have to shift to passing as plan A.

[nick_nameless]

I like to run a Norse Thrower. He's Block, Pass and gets Sure Hands, then Fend and accurate. dump off if he gets a 4th skill no doubles.

Doubles is dodge, then sidestep (forget fend), and if a third is rolled I might ignore or I might give diving tackle, sure feet or guard. Depends on the rest of the team.

[mattgslater]

The Runner/Catcher/whatever is a good piece, in the sense that he's a Lineman with +MA, Dauntless, and A access. Lots of great combo value there, inasmuch as his AV7 will let you keep him building. Blodge/SS/Dauntless is great, and so is Blodge/SS/MA7. As a ball-carrier, he's merely decent, little better than a Lineman or Thrower.

[garion]

the runner is great, the more pertinent question is what are norse doing with a thrower? They have too many positionals for me and the thrower is completely surpluce to requirements, for me he is the worst positional in the game by quite some way. Get trid of the throwers and give the runners P access as well and then the team makes more sense.

[mattgslater]

the runner is great, the more pertinent question is what are norse doing with a thrower? They have too many positionals for me and the thrower is completely surpluce to requirements, for me he is the worst positional in the game by quite some way. Get trid of the throwers and give the runners P access as well and then the team makes more sense.

I disagree. A Sure Hands lino is a good investment, and it's not a guaranteed #1 pick. It sucks slightly to blow 20k on the ability to reroll QP attempts, but it does mean that he'll skill pretty quickly, and when he gets Sure Hands, he's as good a dedicated carrier as any, and frees up your Runners for double-duty. Then, as he skills, you can give him the whole Passing array of carrier skills, like a fragile-but-advanced Dwarf Runner. Accurate, Fend, maybe Tackle, HMP, or Nerves of Steel if you can't catch a double by 51 SPP.

One thing that makes Throwers good is that you tend to go down men a lot with Norse. It's not usually that hard to free up some guys and put up a makeshift cage, but it's often hard to protect the ball and prepare to advance it at the same time. A SH/Acc Thrower is 64/81 (~80%) to get a pickup and SP comp, if you really need it. (Yes, that's desperation, but this is what I'm talking about.) Speaking of desperation, all that Frenzy and MA6 makes Norse sometimes a really good punt team. Caveat: Punts are bad, y'all.

[inkpwn]

It runs through the opponent not around them.

[sunnyside]

Another thing in favor of throwers on the Norse team is that you can't just take more runners.

I'd vastly prefir to end a drive such that it never mattered if my ball carrier had sidestep, dodge, or fend. And having runners out there wrapping up guys without tackle, setting up crowd pushes, or making sideline cages helps make that the case.

So if the runners are out there doing their thing, who to give the ball too? I'd much rather have it in the hands of a thrower than a lineman.

[Dr. Von Richten]

Ok, so it's a Runner, and they can use Agility skills well, I understand that. But why the 'Dauntless' skill? It makes no sense, unless this was some sort of compromise on the BBRC or something 'political' like that.

[sunnyside]

Ok, so it's a Runner, and they can use Agility skills well, I understand that. But why the 'Dauntless' skill? It makes no sense, unless this was some sort of compromise on the BBRC or something 'political' like that.

I think it's a nod to the crazy aggressive Norse fluff, but on a positional that wouldn't work well with Frenzy.

There are other skills that would be much more useful on the runner, but hey, if you're just asking for them to make ideal positionals, why not request AG4 for 'em?

[Smeborg]

It runs through the opponent not around them.

Spot on. What we in NZ call "a Maori sidestep".

[Dr. Von Richten]

I think it's a nod to the crazy aggressive Norse fluff, but on a positional that wouldn't work well with Frenzy.

There are other skills that would be much more useful on the runner, but hey, if you're just asking for them to make ideal positionals, why not request AG4 for 'em?

The point is not to have ideal positionals, but to have positionals that make sense. AG 4, or a skill like Sure Hands or Dodge would be too much, but Dump Off, like the Dark Elf Runner? Or Fend. Or Sprint. Something that fits with the intended goal of the positional.

[spubbbba]

I think giving them dauntless is more for variety and interest than anything else really. It would be a little dull if ever catcher had catch and dodge, every thrower pass and sure hands etc.

Also it’s a good way to get some of the less popular but still sometimes useful skills into the game, with 2 ST4 and a ST5 player dauntless won’t get used that much but is always handy to have.

I think the runner is a great addition to the team, MA7 and 1 skill away from blodge is gold on a team that is mostly bashy and MA6. It makes all the difference when trying for a 2 turn TD.