Struggling with the 'Pro' Elves

[Rubick]

Our club has just started a new league season themed "the bashy league"! Problem is i have decided to just start playing pro elves and am getting an absolute hiding!

My team value is relatively low still (somewhere near 1200) but i must be doing something fundamentally wrong as the last two games i played my team suffered seven casualties each game.

Skills so far include: Two movement 9 catchers one with dodge another wrestle plus a 3rd rookie catcher. Two Blitzers one with dodge. Thrower with sure hands and line-o's; one with kick, two with dodge, one with guard. Ideally i try and keep players out of tackle zones while also trying to score 2 turners if possible (+ apoth)

My aim eventually is to develop one catcher into a dedicated ball snatcher (wrestle, strip ball, tackle...if he lives that long), blitzers as general nuisances/ sideline blockers and line-elfs as flak by giving survivability talents.

If anyone has any general suggestions or tips please do let me know. In case you were wondering what i was playing to suffer 7 casualties, the first was a dwarf veteran team so somewhat understandable, but the second was pure rookie chaos with no mighty blow, all beastment and 2 warriors.

Rubick

[Smurf]

IMO the elves are all about do it or not.

Surehands for a thrower was a waste. Accurate or Safe Throw would be better.
Second Thrower gets kick and Nerves of Steel. Followed by something to pick up those loose balls, maybe Surefeet to get the move on stuff.

Line elves need to pick up Wrestle then Dodge. Some may need Wrestle and Dauntless... Guard as and when.

Blitzers, need that Dodge, then tackle... it's a mini wardancer.

Catchers need to be used in pairs, either offence or defence. Dodge, Sprint, Sidestep, and Dodge Sidestep, Fend (i like Pass block but some don't and it depends on that ball being lobbed about).

Think of a lot of fend too, which will frustrate the bashers and limit some of the carnage.

BTW I'm crazy and no doubt people will disagree.

[Smeborg]

Rubick - I like to play the Pro-Elves in a high-risk, high reward style, attacking the ball with surgical strikes on defense whenever possible. By the time your opponent reduces your numbers, you have the game won already. Expect to play most of the game on defense.

I start with 3 Team Re-rolls and give Leader to a Thrower as first skill-up. 4 RRs means you can take a lot of risks, at least for the first half of each half. Other than as a Leader caddy, the Throwers are not important on this team.

The Blitzers need Dodge, followed by Tackle (Guard on doubles). They behave more like ranged Blockers, getting in the opponent's way. Fend, Sure Hands and Shadowing may be considered as later skills.

The Catchers are key players. I give them Dodge, Wrestle, Tackle (ignoring doubles), making all of them into ball-hunting Blitzers (they may be Catchers on offense, but they are Blitzers on defense).

The Linos are quiet players. I give them Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Fend (Guard on doubles). If you can get 2 or more Guard players on the team, you will notice a big step up in performance.

Hope that helps, and good luck.

[Aliboon]

All the previous advice is good, although passblock, especially in a bashy league is a waste of a skill and I think that elf throwers are probably the best value throwers in the game - accurate and safe throw (strong arm or +AG for gravy) plus NoS, catch catchers mean for a an almost infallible offence, plus they are only 10k more than the linos. The 1st thrower to skill up should get leader imo for a cheap reroll.

I think you would have been better off playing as delves in a bashy league as that AV8 would come in handy.

[Aliboon]

All the previous advice is good, although passblock, especially in a bashy league is a waste of a skill and I think that elf throwers are probably the best value throwers in the game - accurate and safe throw (strong arm or +AG for gravy) plus NoS, catch catchers mean for a an almost infallible offence, plus they are only 10k more than the linos. The 1st thrower to skill up should get leader imo for a cheap reroll.

I think you would have been better off playing as delves in a bashy league as that AV8 would come in handy.

[burgun824]

You need a few Dirty Player/Sneaky Git players and you need to start fouling relentlessly.

Forget the ball and let them make the choice if they want to stall and have you pick off all of their players or score and give you the ball back.

Elves foul just as hard as everyone else.

[dines]

Well fouling is a bit cheaper for pro elves, but its still a 100k player you risk getting sent out... I'm not sold on fouling for elves, especially in this ruleset, where fouling is pretty weak.

Your 7 cas/game is just bad luck, unless you face some really developed POMB killers.

Regarding team development, listen to Smeborg, it makes sense.

[Rubick]

Thanks for the advice from everyone.

Sure hands has saved me a re-roll before now but it does make much more sense to have leader on the thrower, followed by safe throw to avoid those embarrising moments when a marked dwarf trollslayer intercepts a critical pass (Damn you Matt!).

I am not totally sold on fouling purely because i want to keep as many players in the field as i can. Unless get the ref offers a free one i'll play nice.

Rubick

[Smurf]

I agree on the fouling, it's not a luxury Elves can afford.

Load up on wrestle for the line.

How much passing goes on in the league or is it just you...

[Rubick]

Ideally i try and avoid passing as much as possible. My catchers are usually in a 'V' formation - one in midfield, two up each flank and a passer at the back. I try and hand-off from thrower to catchers mid field who then goes up least protected flank and does a quick pass to another catcher for a quick score.

The other guys in my league have a phobia of passing the ball and most cage and run the ball in.

[TalonBay]

Getting at least three players downfield causes problems for coverage as it's hard to shut down the pro elf catchers and only one can get blitzed over per turn. I'd expect the pro elfs to be able to make sure of a 2-turn TD most of the time but for me you need to build your team for defense (I say defense but really it's offense but you're kicking the ball rather than receiving).

The catchers are amazing blitzers when they're tooled up (leap, wrestle, tackle) as ball-sackers (does that ever get old?). The blitzers are better at slowing down the front of the cage with blodge/sidestep combos and I'd aim for wrestle/dodge/fend with the lino's as you're not aiming to win the casualty war (so you don't miss block) and any blockers that hit you risk opening a hole in their protection for you to exploit (when you use wrestle to take both down). Kick is a must take on a lino (the first skill for me) so you can control the ball placement so much better, then you aim to go get it before the offense gets its cage really going.

[burgun824]

Sissies.

[spubbbba]

I’d be wary of going too wrestle heavy on any elven team.

Their greatest advantage is mass AG4 which means that any player can handle the ball. Wrestle instead of block makes your ball carrier less effective.

Oh and dodge/Diving tackle is a tasty combo on blitzers, though less useful in a bash heavy league.

I'd agree that fouling is pointless unless it is a very juicy target, it's far too risky to be down another player.

[burgun824]

I understand it's not a popular method, but with DP & Sneaky Git you're only losing your player on doubles if the armor breaks.

Plus I have a sneaking suspicion that enduring 14 CAS in the last two games is one of two things; bad luck (as mentioned above) or you're not dodging out of tackle zones enough.

[Smurf]

Wrestle forces players to the ground which means they cannot block next turn. It also slows them down for the more speedier players. It allows gaps in the field to be exploited by the elves.

IMO wrestle is underated and it is the line elves best skill.

Elves will get a lot of push backs with this and if you can get a scrimmage line of Wrestle Dodge all you need is fend to really upset them.

The catchers are the problem in this league, gut says block but exploiting those loose balls you may need one with: dodge, leap, surefeet, sprint and sidestep. The primary goal is for this 'missile' elf to grab the ball and lob it (either forward or back and maybe to an empty square or to a better player).

Bash teams love their safe ball, the grind and if the ball is dropped there is plenty of time to recover it. Make the recovery difficult and put pressure on them. Makes them think about rerolls.

BTW if the other team has a thrower, smack it every turn.