Kicking vs receiving

[swilhelm73]

Playing mostly bash and hybrid teams at lower TV I've generally kicked when given the choice. Whether you get a defensive score, stop your opponent, or even give up a TD, you now know at least what you have to do in the second half and get the ball to begin with. Conversely if you receive, you don't have much control after the first half, even if you score.

However, at higher TV, I've tended now to receive more, since the kill skills that come at higher TV allow you to define the progress of the game by eliminating players, at least potentially, in that first drive. Unless you want to leave large parts of the field uncovered you can only protect two players fully on defense. On offense, at least to start, you have far more control over who your opponent can hit, and how.

So, for example, I'm about to take a TV2000 chaos team vs a TV2000 human team built around well developed blitzers.

If I receive, you can use those blitzers to potentially get a man advantage going into the half, leaving me to have to score twice AND focus on removing his players. If I receive I can most likely go into the half up 1-0 with some of his stars out for the second half. Of course this does mean two KO roll checks which is a negative.

Thoughts?

[burgun824]

I ALWAYS choose to receive if I can. It puts you in control of the first half and allows you to take the first whack at the other guy (barring a Blitz! on the KO table). Ideally I want to be up 1-0 at the half and have put enough of his guys down to allow me to win the battle of attrition in the second half. I find it easier to overcome my opponent if I have more men on the field then the other guy and controllling the ball and the LOS makes it easier to beat up and foul your opponent mercilessly IMO. I like to get that done as soon as possible.

[besters]

+1

[garion]

I think it depends which race. Burgun sounds like he is speaking as a bash team coach there

I prefer to receive first if im a bash team or most versatile teams, and prefer to receive first if an elf or rat

[burgun824]

I don't play elves unless I'm drunk and not thinking straight.

So yes...I usually play a bashier team. Undead and orc are my favorites because they're more forgiving of my lackluster coaching.

If I were playing an AG heavy team then I might switch my focus and consider kicking first. But I think high TV humans with well developed blitzers vs Chaos that I would pick to receive with either of those teams.

[mattgslater]

I have this complex formula that's starting to change to "kick first". I've been on more sides of this issue than I think can be said to clearly exist.

I think this is a job for existing data. FUMBBL and Cyanide should track everything we need to know, for somebody with the skills to do it reasonably quickly. I could tell you about my games, or some other limited body like that, by putting a bunch of factors into Excel and sorting around to see what I can see.

[Coach Grievous]

I'd love to see the stats myself and I've also been of different minds about this. In fact, right now, I'm not entirely sure what to think. Except that I doubt the stats would convince me either way, because I think the match-up and relative skill levels come into play (and I'm assuming we'd have trouble pulling that kind of information out).

There's an inherent contradiction in the often espouses viewpoint on this. The non-bashier team should kick first so they can defend with a full squad, resulting in a more likely defensive touchdown and then still be able to score even if they are down men when they receive next half. At the same time, the bashier team should receive first so that they can control the pace and grind the other down. So, both want the same thing.. which is an oddity and would kind of point to a view that maybe it's not so relevant at all in itself (but that pacing and executing your strategy overall is paramount).

My own anecdotal views right now with the dark elves I've been playing lately is that as a rookie elven side, I did much better when receiving first and going for an initial attacking score.

However, now that my team is far more skilled with lots of block/dodge/sidestep, making the team a defensive nightmare that just doesn't die away like a rookie elf team, I much favor letting the other team receive - especially against non-bash or non-experienced bash sides. I'm not as sure against experienced bash. This season's record for the dark elves is that I've let only 2 touchdowns against and won all 5 games thus far, which I'm unsure really speaks anything necessarily about this approach, but certainly something about the defense working out in general.

With bash, I'm not entirely sure.. Part of me says to receive with rookie bash to get the initiative and a large part of me says that with experienced bash (with enough killing skills) receiving is even more good. Also somewhat curiously, if I had to face my own dark elves, I'd still say to receive versus them and grind them.

Yeah, I guess my advice right now boils down to this: if it will be a hard game to win for you, receive and score the more certain TD. If your team (or your coaching) is clearly better than the opposition, then kicking is the better option.

[Der_Doodle]

If you think you can make a couple of KO's in the first half then KICK.

Why?

Cause If you are the defensive team in the first half YOU control how many KO-Rolls your opponent will have since you will have the final turn of the half.

If you receive instead and manage to score in Turn 8 your Opponent will have 2 KO Rolls for each player until the next drive (after your TD and then again after his 8th turn)

So against Speed or mixed teams I would always kick first. You get your Cas/KOs anyways if you make the 3 opening blocks or not and you reduce his KO Rolls by 1 if you score in your last turn of the half.

As a Bash Team against another bash team that is alot stronger then you (Claw/MB/PO etc) THEN i would maybe receive first.

[RogueThirteen]

I just always hope my opponent wins the coin toss so I don't have to make the decision.

[Darkson]

I've started to find I'm doing better on the defensive than I do when on the offensive, so I more often than not Kick, even when facing a bashy side.

Of course, when I do decide to receive, my opponent normally get's a Blitz KO result!

[Hitonagashi]

I almost always receive with Lizzies.

The exception is against vamps rats and woodies...the other types of elves I can usually stop turning me over, but with those, I want the free casualties during their drive to give me a chance when I have to score! (note, I'll receive against rats too if they've got clawmbpo blitzers)

If you have the ball you control the drive, the pace. You can draw him into the sidelines and surf, or force him next to the killers, where he'd keep miles away from them on his drive.

[Viajero]

I just always hope my opponent wins the coin toss so I don't have to make the decision.

LOL

[TuernRedvenom]

If I think the odds of winning are very skewed towards one team (eg woodies vs lizards, really big difference in coaching skill, killer chaos vs dwarves,...) then I like to receive to either get the opportunity to get lucky on the first 3 blocks, or deny that opportunity to my opponent.

In any other case I always kick. Kicking gives you more control over the ko box, and most importantly you get the initiative in the second half, which is when the game is decided.

[soranos]

Both has it's pros and cons, but in the end I normally always receive. I consider myself a decent enough staller, so I normally go into the half 1-0 up in the vast majority of games in which I reiceve first. I love having the last turn of the game and being up 1-0 at the half you normally can only lose the game, if the opponent's dice turn red-hot (or your as cold as ice).

I just think I'm a better player when I am up (a front-runner if you like) as I prefer playing conservatively and confront the opposing player with time problems instead of having to conquer the ball.

[dines]

If I think the odds of winning are very skewed towards one team (eg woodies vs lizards, really big difference in coaching skill, killer chaos vs dwarves,...) then I like to receive to either get the opportunity to get lucky on the first 3 blocks, or deny that opportunity to my opponent.

In any other case I always kick. Kicking gives you more control over the ko box, and most importantly you get the initiative in the second half, which is when the game is decided.

I do the same.. With my dark elf team, kicking was fine, as they were great in defense.. My chaos dwarves are now getting quite some bash skills, preferring to receive with them.