Talk Fantasy Football

Hello all,

Only my second post - I have been a bit of a lurker these past few months on this great forum and it is time to come out of the woodwork!

I am playing in a small league with a couple of mates the last year or two and I am developing my first Wood Elves team. The other teams include: highly developed bashy Humans, TV150 Dwarfs, TV130 Norse and a highly developed TV200 Skaven team.

I suffered my worst ever loss the other day: a 0-6(!) blowout against this well developed Skaven team.They have an AG5 Gutter Runner, MV10 GR, Blockle Rat Ogre, a couple of AG boosted Linerats and 5 Re-Rolls among their assets: truly my bete noire in our league, although I have given them some close shootout games in the recent past.

A couple of factors that did not help my team in the match:

Pouring rain most of the match - -1 to pick up, catch and intercept ball
+2 FAME for my opponent and kick off table results meant that he had up to 7 re-rolls at his disposal, encouraging a more 'liberal' approach to his actions each turn...

Ultimately, it comes down to tactics and coaching - I attempted to go for the shootout and snatch the win on my defense.

While I would say I am an average skilled coach at best, let's say I was not feeling at my sharpest mentally (early shifts at work and lack of sleep - I doth protest too much!) and made some poor schoolboy errors through the whole game; the first half particularly.

Having failed to prevent the first score after four turns, I gifted my opponent two more TDs by not protecting my ballcarrier adequately and then suffering from a lack of re-rolls and un-Elven ball handling!

I lost my two best players to injury (No.1 and No.5) in the first half by putting them in risky positions to blitz and try to prevent scores - they were then unavailable to help save the game in the second half

After making my own bad luck in the first half, the second half then followed a desperate pattern of failed offensive drives - forcing things by trying to pass my way through - with instantly punishing TDs from the rats. By not preparing to fail adequately and not having enough re-rolls to manage the increasing curse of 1s (and 2s!), I had lost the plot by 0-4.

So, enough of my pity party. My team, the Everglade Flyers:

1. Wardancer 8, 3, 4, 6 Block, Dodge, Leap, Strip Ball, Tackle (Mng, -1AV), 29SPP
2. Wardancer 8, 3, 4, 7 Block, Dodge, Leap, Mighty Blow, Tackle, 28SPP
3. Thrower 7, 3, 4, 7 Pass, 2SPP
4. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, Block, 7SPP
5. Lineman 7, 4, 5, 7 +1AG, +1ST, Guard (Mng), 36SPP
6. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Block (Niggle), 12SPP
7. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Guard (Niggle), 8SPP
8. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, Fend, 16SPP
9. Lineman 6, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, 15SPP
10. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, Dodge, 18SPP
11. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Dodge, Fend, 24SPP
12. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Kick, 6SPP
13. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, 1SPP
14. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, Block, 11SPP
15. Lineman 7, 3, 3, 7 Block, Dauntless (Niggle, -1AG), 21SPP

3 Re-Rolls, 7 Fan Factor, Bank: 150,000 GP
TV 200 (TV 165 for next match)

So, I have two issues to raise from all this:

I know that one or two players could/should be cut from the team to reduce bloat (after my next match, all things going well). The three players with stat breaks or No. 6 with a niggle look to be prime candidates. Any advice on who is to go?

I also humbly ask the great and good of this forum for some sage tactical advice on how to beat those damned vermin ratmen!

Apologies for length of post and please be gentle - I have only just recovered from that 0-6 spanking...

Cheers, Matt

Mattedge666 wrote:Hello all,

Only my second post - I have been a bit of a lurker these past few months on this great forum and it is time to come out of the woodwork!

I am playing in a small league with a couple of mates the last year or two and I am developing my first Wood Elves team. The other teams include: highly developed bashy Humans, TV150 Dwarfs, TV130 Norse and a highly developed TV200 Skaven team.

I suffered my worst ever loss the other day: a 0-6(!) blowout against this well developed Skaven team.They have an AG5 Gutter Runner, MV10 GR, Blockle Rat Ogre, a couple of AG boosted Linerats and 5 Re-Rolls among their assets: truly my bete noire in our league, although I have given them some close shootout games in the recent past.

A couple of factors that did not help my team in the match:

Pouring rain most of the match - -1 to pick up, catch and intercept ball
+2 FAME for my opponent and kick off table results meant that he had up to 7 re-rolls at his disposal, encouraging a more 'liberal' approach to his actions each turn...

Ultimately, it comes down to tactics and coaching - I attempted to go for the shootout and snatch the win on my defense.

While I would say I am an average skilled coach at best, let's say I was not feeling at my sharpest mentally (early shifts at work and lack of sleep - I doth protest too much!) and made some poor schoolboy errors through the whole game; the first half particularly.

Having failed to prevent the first score after four turns, I gifted my opponent two more TDs by not protecting my ballcarrier adequately and then suffering from a lack of re-rolls and un-Elven ball handling!

I lost my two best players to injury (No.1 and No.5) in the first half by putting them in risky positions to blitz and try to prevent scores - they were then unavailable to help save the game in the second half

After making my own bad luck in the first half, the second half then followed a desperate pattern of failed offensive drives - forcing things by trying to pass my way through - with instantly punishing TDs from the rats. By not preparing to fail adequately and not having enough re-rolls to manage the increasing curse of 1s (and 2s!), I had lost the plot by 0-4.

So, enough of my pity party. My team, the Everglade Flyers:

1. Wardancer 8, 3, 4, 6 Block, Dodge, Leap, Strip Ball, Tackle (Mng, -1AV), 29SPP
2. Wardancer 8, 3, 4, 7 Block, Dodge, Leap, Mighty Blow, Tackle, 28SPP
3. Thrower 7, 3, 4, 7 Pass, 2SPP
4. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, Block, 7SPP
5. Lineman 7, 4, 5, 7 +1AG, +1ST, Guard (Mng), 36SPP
6. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Block (Niggle), 12SPP
7. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Guard (Niggle), 8SPP
8. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, Fend, 16SPP
9. Lineman 6, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, 15SPP
10. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Wrestle, Dodge, 18SPP
11. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Dodge, Fend, 24SPP
12. Lineman 7, 3, 4, 7 Kick, 6SPP
13. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, 1SPP
14. Catcher 8, 2, 4, 7 Catch, Dodge, Sprint, Block, 11SPP
15. Lineman 7, 3, 3, 7 Block, Dauntless (Niggle, -1AG), 21SPP

3 Re-Rolls, 7 Fan Factor, Bank: 150,000 GP
TV 200 (TV 165 for next match)

So, I have two issues to raise from all this:

I know that one or two players could/should be cut from the team to reduce bloat (after my next match, all things going well). The three players with stat breaks or No. 6 with a niggle look to be prime candidates. Any advice on who is to go?

I also humbly ask the great and good of this forum for some sage tactical advice on how to beat those damned vermin ratmen!

Apologies for length of post and please be gentle - I have only just recovered from that 0-6 spanking...

Cheers, Matt

I personally would fire the AV 6 WD and I would buy a brand new one, this way you would have him for the next match, and the #6, #7, #15 linelves as well (AV 7 and a NI?! No thanks!!!);
Do it, Your TV will be nice and slim after the trimming.
As a rule of thumb, try to fire the NI players as soon as possible, don't keep them in your roster, they bloat your TV and steal MVPs from your healthy players.

welcome to TFF!

I think i'd sack and replace the AV6 wardancer too - with strip ball and AV6, he won't last too long when he jumps in and fails.

Niggles aren't generally a sacking offence if they are good players and not getting hit too often, but 2 of your niggles look to be linefodder (block and block/dauntless) so I think I'd can them too. I might keep the dauntless chap if facing a strong team next game though.

I think the guard niggle is worth keeping, guard is golden on woodies.

Aliboon wrote:welcome to TFF!

I think i'd sack and replace the AV6 wardancer too - with strip ball and AV6, he won't last too long when he jumps in and fails.

Niggles aren't generally a sacking offence if they are good players and not getting hit too often, but 2 of your niggles look to be linefodder (block and block/dauntless) so I think I'd can them too. I might keep the dauntless chap if facing a strong team next game though.

I think the guard niggle is worth keeping, guard is golden on woodies.

Wood elves are not there for blocking, they are there for dodging and scoring. I don't get how much can be useful Dauntless for an AV 7 NI linelf, one or two knockdowns and he will likely be KO or worse.
Guard is golden, but a NI Guard linelf is expensive in terms of TV, when you consider he will be soon out of the pitch (Guards tend to be block-magnets), if we were talking about a MA 6 or AG 3 Guard I would keep him, but niggled, and with just AV 7... nah... I don't think it's a good idea.
Do you really want to waste 100 TV that would be better spent elsewhere (for example in inducements)?
I wouldn't.
And, as I said previously, niggled players steal MVPs from the healthy ones, the more NI players you have, the more chances a MVP will be assigned to one of them (i.e. wasted).
TV optimization doesn't involve wasting MVPs on NI players, especially frail AV 7 players.
An exception that comes to my mind could be keeping a niggled one turner player, just because he is not going to be blocked, he simply must play one turn and score that precious TD, or a high armoured, thick skull player (for example I'm keeping a niggled Ogre, just because I need him meanwhile I'm earning the necessary gold to buy a replacement, but he has AV 9, high ST and Thick Skull, it's far different).

I'd also cut the -AV wardancer and replace with a fresh one. Nothing really special about him and rookie wardancers are awesome. Your opponents also have Sure Hands players so you shouldn't miss Strip Ball too much.

Then I'd cut the Block+Dauntless lino. He's a utility player with Dauntless but with -AG he lacks the mobility to get where you need him. Plus there's not too many ST3+ players in your league anyway for him to hit.

After this, if you feel that you could manage with just 13 players, I'd cut the niggled Block lino. If he had Dodge, he'd be much more durable and he's your prime los fodder anyway and the los is no place for nigglers.

I'd keep the niggled Guard lino and look to get Dodge on him, at the very least for your next match. The first Guard on elves is awesome and without him you'd have none for your next match. If you roll more Guard in the future and this guy hasn't gotten any new skills before that, I could cut him then.

Whatever you do, don't cut too much yet as you don't have too much cash.

IMO you should be ok. Need more wrestle.

Tough on the WD, replace it.

13 players in the roster should be plenty. As suggested above fire a few of those Niggling... and replace the AV6 WD whenever you can afford it.

I would also get a Treeman, invaluable to protect your LoS and also great to tie down ST3/AG3 pieces... specially if they are AV7. Just make sure that you get a support when blocking with it so you can have 3D.

Next time you play against that skaven team, make sure you get at least a Wizard and dont go for a shootout. With the Tree and that MB/Tackle WD you should grind on your drive and keep the ball until turn 8. Make a point to get the MA10 GR out of the game if possible. On the Skaven drive use the wizard wisely to secure a defensive TD. Success.

Well Matt,

The forum has spoken. My advice still is:

get a new wardancer - the AV6 is a huge hinderance even if the humans, dwarves or skaven get you the Norse or even a failed leap could get him killed and you have then wasted a game of development for a new shiny WD. A shiny WD will be more worth in the long run

The Niggled Linemen: I think that the #6 (wrestle??) should be cut. He will bloat the team and as everyone else has said why do you want him taking MVP points from anyone else. The Guard I may keep, could be useful for the short term but he will bloat the team a bit (with the other cuts you should balance out). As for your kamakazi lineelf #15 I have always liked him as a player he was a fun concept to try and take big guys down, but to be honest the experiment hasn't worked he has been great to watch but with only 3 potential targets in the humans, norse and skaven he really isn't pulling his weight as much as he could be. With the niggle he is now not going to do his job on the line either and will be leaving more often than not - chop him.

The treeman: not sure. He will bring bash to the front and hold up players, but only 3 of them and they will be expendable to the team but possibly with block so the tree will be slightly vunerable to both down results until (and if you are lucky enough) you get block. I am not sure how much good he will do.

As for tactics you told me the elves need to be built to defend as they already attack well. You didn't defend your ball carrier against the skaven and that is why you were punished so heavily. I agree at 4-0 you were shell shocked and it was all over. Next time defend the ball carefully.

Catch you at the next games

Ade

If the tree suits your style of play, keep him. If you constantly feel that he is out of the play, useless or rooted, sack him.

As for the niggled dauntless, I would like to point out an additional flaw: I assume he blocks big guys? i.e. the guys with mighty blow. If he fails a dauntless roll, or fails to knock them over, he will be facing a world of hurt the following turn.

You have too many players, that is the major bloat to your TV.
Replace the WD and fire 2 linemen (I would keep the guard for a while until I get more cash to replace him with a treeman) as others said

nazgob wrote:If the tree suits your style of play, keep him. If you constantly feel that he is out of the play, useless or rooted, sack him.

As for the niggled dauntless, I would like to point out an additional flaw: I assume he blocks big guys? i.e. the guys with mighty blow. If he fails a dauntless roll, or fails to knock them over, he will be facing a world of hurt the following turn.

The problem with elves and block is the fact you can get hit again. Wrestle means you take both down. Gaps in lines means elf mobility plus.

I have dauntless player with wrestle IIRC he either has -1MV or a niggle. He is staying. Judging by the longevity of my 1st Catcher (who I want fired or whatever), his niggle injury has not harmed him much... the fact is he goes on scrimmage duty now (why won't you die!)

IMO Elves need a full team, I have been in so many games that attrition is just knocking players off.

I must admit if I were to start again, I would be more refined in my choice of skills but it has been a great learning curve.

Cheers everyone for the very helpful responses and discussion - pleased to see such constructive criticism!

I knew my team was getting bloated and in the case of #6 and #15, I was throwing them on the LOS and thinking that 'natural selection' would do its thing... Far better to have just cut them earlier and moved on.

Not taking any Inducements into that last Skaven game really hurt my team I think. Skaven bring a lot of value with their cheap skilled players and with them all the way up to the TV200 rating, I could have gotten better value with some choice Inducements (a Wizard for starters). Next time!

I have cut #1 WD (fluff-wise, my team captain ) and purchased a new one. Also cut #6 and #15 as recommended. I will hang on to #7 with Guard for one or two matches - my star player 'freak' Lineman (ST4, AG5, Guard) is out of the next match and 12 men (not including any induced mercs) is a bare minimum amount of players to take...

Hope to save enough for a Treeman after two or three matches and will then cut the #7 Guard Lineman.

A bit of a silly analogy maybe, but being an Arsenal football/soccer fan, I think I may have done a bit of an Arsene Wenger with my team, especially after looking at that last game with the Skaven:

A team full of highly attacking and 'tekkers' players but prone to some suicidal defending and shambolic lapses in concentration at the back.
I have shown too much bloody-mindedness and/or sentimentality in hanging onto my developing players of certain talent, but incredibly injury prone and of questionable value to the team overall.
Persisting with the same under-performing players and possibly making the same tactical mistakes despite calls for new signings and a change of approach!
It took the double whammy of losing my two of my best players (including club captain #1WD) then/and a total hammering by a big league rival (Fabregas, Nasri, also read the 8-2 drubbing this season against Man Utd) to actually realise that some of the deadwood has to be replaced and the team's tactics and shape must be reorganized.

Stretching it a bit thin there maybe - apologies to any non-football/soccer fans for that nonsense and who don't know/care what I am jabbering on about!

Thanks again chaps. Now, I will go into my next match with TV147 - my Skaven rival has TV207.

If our random league scheduling system pits us against each other in an immediate return fixture, I would have a whopping 600,00GP to spend on Inducements.

A Wizard is straight on the list for 150,000, leaving 450,000GP to spend.

What would the rest be best spent on? Bloodweiser Babe, merc Lineman and Wandering Apo plus Eldril Sidewinder for Hypno-cage busting?

Blow it all on Morg N'Thorg?

Get a Halfling Master Chef to try and nerf my ratty opponent's re-rolls and take them for my own?

Or some cards to mix in with everything - they are more flavour than match winners, but there some tricky, handy things that get randomly picked out too. What do you guys think?

Thanks again,

Matt

Wizard and Jordel Freshbreeze, no doubt. Jordel´s AG5 leap, even though a Loner, is really worth its weight in gold. Plus he´s Blodged, unlike Eldril. 2+ Leap is much more effective at breaking cages than a 3+ hypno gaze in my book. Other than that, then a good bribe (Jordel is 260K) to get GRunners or MB/Tackle pesky Stormvermin out and tehn a Babe (that ll be a total of 150+260+100+50=560). And remember, when hitting GR aim to have 2 supports for a 3D.

Also, as others have mentioned above, while you grind your attack, protect well the ball: full cage, no messing around. Skaven are the best team at punishing mistakes and exploiting any small opening. Make sure where possible when you move the ball that you have it first secured in a cage before you roll any 1D or blocks without Block/Wrestle skill.

I disagree on jordell being better than eldril, loner makes using a star too risky for vital leap blitzes, you have a blockle dancer who leaps on a 3+ and can re-roll that as well as the block dice without risk.

Eldril is one of the best value stars in the game, he has catch and dodge so can be used as a receiver but his hypno gaze is a huge risk on defence and doubly so with wardancers.

Wizards are always a good choice for elves, I think the chef isn’t worth it as he has plenty of re-rolls, You could get a bribe and foul the gutters a lot and babes and/or an extra apoth are worth it if he has some nasty MB tackle vermin or likes to foul lots.

I disagree on jordell being better than eldril, loner makes using a star too risky for vital leap blitzes, you have a blockle dancer who leaps on a 3+ and can re-roll that as well as the block dice without risk.

Eldril is one of the best value stars in the game, he has catch and dodge so can be used as a receiver but his hypno gaze is a huge risk on defence and doubly so with wardancers.

Wizards are always a good choice for elves, I think the chef isn’t worth it as he has plenty of re-rolls, You could get a bribe and foul the gutters a lot and babes and/or an extra apoth are worth it if he has some nasty MB tackle vermin or likes to foul lots.