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Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:43 am
by klauser
I would need some advice on two skill choices for my Gutter Runners.
Here's my roster:
SV - Tackle, Guard, MB
SV - Guard, (Nigg)
Thrower - Block, Accurate, Extra Arms
GR °1 - +ST, Block, Tackle, Side Step, Wrestle
GR °2 - Guard, Block, Side Step, (-MV)
GR °3 - +MV, Block, Two Heads, Side Step - [rolled 4+4]
GR °4 - +ST, Wrestle - rolled 4+6
Linerat - Kick, Dodge
Linerat - Wrestle
Linerat - Block
Linerat - Block
Linerat - +ST
Linerat - rookie x 2
4 RR
Apo
TV - 1980 (before skill-ups)
Options for GR°3 (the Juan Turner) - rolled 4,4
- Sprint --> OTT tactics: taking Sprint would force my opp to set up along the TD line (instead of defending against the chain push), which makes chain pushing easier. so you could say that taking Sprint means fewer GFIs on average for the OTT.
- Big Hand/X-Arms: for ball retrieval/offense
- Guard: because it's good
Options for GR°4 (+ST/Wrestle) - rolled 4,6
- +MV - another MV10 GR is tempting, esp since Juan Turners tend to have short life spans. However, I'm currently having some troubles against caging bashers (high TV means no Wizard) and was planning to develop this guy into a cage-breaker à la [+ST, Wrestle, Leap, Tackle, Strip Ball (Horns on doubles)].
- Leap/Tackle - see above, not sure which should come first, but probably Leap since I don't have Leaper yet.
- Frenzy - would also add a new trick to my arsenal (since I dont have a RO). I really miss having a Frenzy piece, and what would be a better fit than a MV9 AG4 Dodge piece.
My next match-ups in the current season are Undead (with +500k inducements against me), Norse, 2 x Chaos, High Elves, Dwarves.
Thoughts?
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:26 am
by Smurf
Yes two MA10s are better than one.
As for the double. What about:
Long Legs to go with leap
What the hell, sure feet/sprint
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:55 am
by garion
yup definately +ma
and then the other one I would either ignore the double and take Diving Tackle which you really need. Or just go for Horns. Definately dont go for VLL its a waste of a skill. Or Guard, which is never a bad pick and it is nice on a SS blodge player too. Guard will probably work best for most fo your next opponents though Diving tackle would be nice against Chaos and High Elves.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:00 am
by DoubleSkulls
Big Hand for me. Picking up on 2s when he can easily dodge through TZ makes him a really powerful ball retriever.
For the normal skill I'd be torn between Strip Ball and the Move. Given you've only got one opponent who starts with Sure Hands strip ball is very interesting but really depends on what other skills the other teams have.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:10 pm
by TalonBay
I'm playing skaven in a league too (the team's linked from my sig) and my Mv10 piece is a huge target every game, he's not going to last so I dream of the day when I get two of them. I recommend taking sprint on the current Juan Turner, I had the option of taking a double skill on mine rather than sprint and I've not regretted taking sprint at all.
For GR #4 I'd go with the +MV, it's much harder for your opponent to shut the pair of them down and a +ST +MV GR is awesome (if you're lucky enough to roll a double after that horns delivers a ST4 blitz from miles away, my guy has a large bounty on his head because he's so effective).
I know these aren't the most interesting of skills to take but in terms of improving your team I think they're not that difficult.
If you're going for "colour" then big hand on the double as he already dodges well and armour on the +ST guy to keep him alive to build long term.
Edit: I should add that I don't think you need to focus on scoring with the MV10 guys all the time, mine has scored a lot because of the nature of our league (a free skill in the end-of-season awards for top-scorer, top-basher etc...). I generally use him as a highly mobile blitzer, only my Claw blitzer has more CAS.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:31 pm
by DoubleSkulls
SS MA10 is very easy to score a 1 turner with anyway. You only need 1 push. So unless your opponent is all SF/SS then you should be sweet.
I think Big Hand offers something that he doesn't already have and really nicely compliments the rest of the team.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:01 pm
by klauser
DoubleSkulls wrote:SS MA10 is very easy to score a 1 turner with anyway. You only need 1 push. So unless your opponent is all SF/SS then you should be sweet.
I think Big Hand offers something that he doesn't already have and really nicely compliments the rest of the team.
Well, if your opp knows how to set up against chain-push OTTs, it will take a Dodge into 2-3 TZ for the initial blitz.
Still, I can see your point and I also like Big Hand. It's definitely on my short list.
TalonBay wrote: I recommend taking sprint on the current Juan Turner, I had the option of taking a double skill on mine rather than sprint and I've not regretted taking sprint at all.
For GR #4 I'd go with the +MV, it's much harder for your opponent to shut the pair of them down and a +ST +MV GR is awesome (if you're lucky enough to roll a double after that horns delivers a ST4 blitz from miles away, my guy has a large bounty on his head because he's so effective).
I know these aren't the most interesting of skills to take but in terms of improving your team I think they're not that difficult.
If you're going for "colour" then big hand on the double as he already dodges well and armour on the +ST guy to keep him alive to build long term.
Edit: I should add that I don't think you need to focus on scoring with the MV10 guys all the time, mine has scored a lot because of the nature of our league (a free skill in the end-of-season awards for top-scorer, top-basher etc...). I generally use him as a highly mobile blitzer, only my Claw blitzer has more CAS.
TalonBay, "double skulls"? Did you mean "Two Heads"? My MV10 GR already has Two Heads, so that's not an option. Also, I try not to score too much with the MV10 guy, but he still ends up hogging SPP. I agree with taking +MV on the +ST, Wrestle GR, but it would mean wainting another couple games before I get a Leap or a Frenzy piece.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:33 pm
by spubbbba
klauser wrote:DoubleSkulls wrote:SS MA10 is very easy to score a 1 turner with anyway. You only need 1 push. So unless your opponent is all SF/SS then you should be sweet.
I think Big Hand offers something that he doesn't already have and really nicely compliments the rest of the team.
Well, if your opp knows how to set up against chain-push OTTs, it will take a Dodge into 2-3 TZ for the initial blitz.
Still, I can see your point and I also like Big Hand. It's definitely on my short list.
That’s not right, you can only do that if the initial blitz has no pushes. Otherwise the skaven player can leave a gap and then push a player into that and push the gutter on the second block.
I really don’t think sprint is worth it as it is a skill you will rarely use. If you don’t want to take the double then leap or sure feet would be better for OTT and more use the rest of the time.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:55 pm
by DoubleSkulls
klauser wrote:Well, if your opp knows how to set up against chain-push OTTs, it will take a Dodge into 2-3 TZ for the initial blitz.
Assuming no SF/SS worst case is you need 2 pushes instead of 1 isn't it? e.g.
So B pushes Z into the gap "a" and A makes the 2nd block, pushing G - the sidestepper. Or is my chainpush OTT defence well behind?
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:41 pm
by TalonBay
klauser wrote:TalonBay wrote:I had the option of taking a double skill on mine rather than sprint and I've not regretted taking sprint at all.
TalonBay, "double skulls"? Did you mean "Two Heads"? My MV10 GR already has Two Heads, so that's not an option.
No, I was talking about a "double skill" as in a skill that can only be taken on a doubles roll. What I was saying is that I've found sprint to be good value, it's rarely used but when it is I either take down a ballcarrier I otherwise couldn't reach or I score.
klauser wrote:Also, I try not to score too much with the MV10 guy, but he still ends up hogging SPP. I agree with taking +MV on the +ST, Wrestle GR, but it would mean wainting another couple games before I get a Leap or a Frenzy piece.
I don't have either Leap or Frenzy (other than the Rat Ogre and I hate him), they're in the plan for the team but are lower priority than the skills that are currently selected. I tend to go for the ball before the cage is formed so the leaper is less of a priority though I agree it's a great skill for a GR.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:59 pm
by TalonBay
DoubleSkulls wrote:SS MA10 is very easy to score a 1 turner with anyway. You only need 1 push. So unless your opponent is all SF/SS then you should be sweet.
One push? Surely there has to be at least one push to get the opposition player in my half and then another push to push him into my GR in order to use side-step?
Very easy is an over estimation IMO, I had about as good a situation as could be hoped for recently: touchback (no pick-up's and hand-offs/passes to fail) and then 2 dice block with the one turner to blitz his way for a run to the endzone with 3 GFI and with a re-roll to use. So four dice at 2+ (I failed to knock over the opponent on the blitz so had to dodge away from a tackler) and a 2 dice block, all with a re-roll, I worked this out at about 68% chance of success. If you have to rely on picking up balls, getting it to the scorer and pushing opponents then that % drops even further. It's seen as an easy score but I'd be suprised if it was above 50% chance of success generally. The other factor to consider is that I'm facing teams that will beat me down to a handful of players by the end of the game (my last 4 games I've finished with about 5 players on pitch), sprint gives me a shot where I otherwise may not have it.
I'd be happy for someone to improve my skills here if I'm missing something.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:26 pm
by DoubleSkulls
Most of those odds are the same for an MA10 Sprint player too.
Re: Gutter Runner level-ups
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:35 pm
by TalonBay
DoubleSkulls wrote:Most of those odds are the same for an MA10 Sprint player too.
They're possibly similar assuming you have enough players to both set up the chain pushes and go fetch the ball and get it to Mr Juan Turner. Not something I'm in the position to guarantee on turn 16 of the games I'm playing at the moment when there's been 22 casualties in the last 4 games, and then KO's on top. Just thankful that the majority have been BH!