Norse TV108 Start and Develop

[Dudegrip]

Hello all,

As a spur of the moment thing, I’m taking Norse (which I have never played or even looked at before) as my second team in a new league: 12 rounds, +3 playoffs, if applicable.

Other teams competing against me: Human, Pro Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, High Elf, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Chaos Pact, Orc, Necromantic, Nurgle, Apes of Wrath, Daemons of Khorne. My first opponents will be Orcs (TV115), Apes (TV114), Khorne (TV110)

There is a variable starting TV based on inducements for draft order, so my start ended up being TV108.

Subject to discussion on this forum, I’m thinking of the following build:
1 Snow Troll
2 Ulfwereners
1 Bezerker
1 Runner
6 Linemen
3 Rerolls
1 Apoth
=1,070k with10k left over to save in future games for 2nd Bezerker, then 2nd Runner, then depth in linemen (think 3 rerolls will be sufficient for entire season). We don’t have random MVPs (pick 5, roll D6), so I should be able to skill up positionals relatively quickly, and don’t absolutely need them all to start.

I think the Apoth is crucial given the Norse armor, and I see no reason to take less than 3 rerolls, but am open to arguments for 4.

The real question I have is regarding the Snow Troll and the Ulfs? I’m new to the Norse positionals, although am somewhat familiar with frenzy from having coached Dark Elves to a league championship, as well as handling a Rat Ogre or a Minotaur from time to time. Given my opposition, I think the extra strength of the SnoT and the Ulfs will be necessary, but I could loose one or either to get an extra lineman or upgrade one to a positional. With my build I could also do 2 Runners or 2 Zerks to start, instead of one of each.

There are 3 weeks until I have to play my first game and my roster becomes set. I’ll welcome arguments and suggestions pro and con, and want to thank the forum in advance for all the wonderful material you produce. I have gained much in previous seasons from studying past threads. This is also the first time I’m starting one of my own.

EricK
“You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough”
William Blake Proverbs of Hell

[Shteve0]

Apes! You're playing against Apes!

Sorry this is not constructive, but please do ask your Ape opponent to get in touch. Would love to hear how they get on! Is there a website for your league?

Cheers!

S

[Dudegrip]

Ah yes, of course, and I expect I'll get similar comments re: the Khorne team. I'll notify both coaches to join Talk Fantasy Football and post here, but if they don't, you can follow their progress at our league website BPBBL.com (Border Princes Blood Bowl League).

EricK
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom"
William Blake Proverbs of Hell

[Shteve0]

Lol, sorry about that - please forgive my exuberance. It's just not every day you find out there's another league out there playing your roster

But, having played against Norse and Apes several times each over the last season with my Undead, I'd suggest that both Ulfs and Gorillas are only really scary after they've acquired block, and that in the short term I was much more worried about facing the wrestle chimp runners and the norse blitzers. Of course depending on your format you may find it harder to skill up players than in others, so that will have a big part to play in how you lay out your initial roster.

I guess the two main strategies I'd consider might be:
1) get all the ST players ASAP and risk position for long term development (2 Ulfs and a SnoT have a much better of catching that random MVP on an 11 man roster than 1 Ulf and a SnoT on a 13/14 deep roster)
2) Go for one Ulf at a time and look to skill one up with block before taking the other

Of course, the SnoT's claws vs Orcs will have your opponent worried about who he leaves where; vs Khorne and Apes will me much less useful; and he's be a target for your opponent's Bloodthirster if they take him along.

[SunDevil]

Apes! Woo hoo! Where did you hear about the roster? Is the coach using the Apes of Wrath minis?

Ahem. The only constructive criticism I can offer is to drop a RR and a Lino for your second Zerker. Norse really only need two RRs to start since they have all that Block. That way you maximize your Frenzy which, in turn, maximizes your positional control which is what Norse are all about.

Oh...and APES!!!

[Dudegrip]

I'm sorry my Apes colleague hasn't posted yet; I did email him 2 or 3 hours ago In any case, you can contact him immediately by going to Black Army miniatures. It's his company. And yes, he is using the Apes of Wrath miniatures. Several of us at BPBBL are Three Die Block fans, so I'm guessing he heard about it there. And was that Always Hungry/Chance? Thanks for the Norse 1.5 show! It was quite a crash course in the team. Too bad you weren't there for the first Norse show, which was much less helpful, especially with Drew recommending one play Undead instead

Back to my TV108 Norse Team... The first item I wish to restress is the directed MVPs in our league: Pick 5 players, roll a D6, resulting in the player of choice 1 in 3 (Since 6 means coach's choice). This means that I can add more linemen for depth and not worry about the positionals taking too long to skill up later--something that argues for an extra Zerker and 12th lineman by dropping the SnoT, making my team 2 Ulfs, 2 Zerkers, 1 Runner, 7 Linos, 3 RRs, 1 Apoth for 1,070k with 10 k left over.

Try as I can with the math, I can't seem to get much more than trading a Zerker for a Lino on my original build by dropping the RR, which doesn't seem worth it. The extra RR will help out a team without Sure Hands, and give me greater success with last turn completions to help players skill up with the first MVP. I'm not at all convinced that 2 RRs is adequate to start, just to get a fifth frenzy player.

It also seems to me that a two die block with an blockless ST 4 Ulfwerener is better than a one die block with a ST 3 Bezerker with block--1 in 9 vs 1 in 6 failure--making the Ulfs more statistically useful in situations without assists, not unavoidable, especially with frenzy.

And to ask another question that's been bothering me, do I take Guard with my first ST player to skill up, or do I go Mighty Blow. Assuming, of course, my Ulfs have Block or Wrestle first?

Thanks for all the prompt (and mostly relevant )feedback!

EricK
"Drive your cart and your plow over the bones of the dead."
William Blake Proverbs of Hell

[mattgslater]

In that case, here's what I'd do
Apoth, 3x TRR
1x Snow Troll
2x Ulf
1x Berserker or Runner (style question: facing a lot of ST, I'd want a Runner)
8x Lineman (12 men)

I really like a 12-man Norse squad. 13 feels like overkill at rookie level, but guys are always getting hurt and Frenzy-heavy, Sure-Hands light AG3 teams struggle when man-down.

[Dudegrip]

In that case, here's what I'd do
Apoth, 3x TRR
1x Snow Troll
2x Ulf
1x Berserker or Runner (style question: facing a lot of ST, I'd want a Runner)
8x Lineman (12 men)

Thank you, mattgslater, that is a wonderful solution to the math portion of my problem. I like the fact that it both a) uses every last bit of starting treasury and b) provides a 12 man roster. And I agree with you that the Runner is probably a better positional to take than the Berserker to start, assuming I can only take one. My initial opponents are bashy, but the league as a whole is equally divided with agility teams, so I should have at least one Zerker bought, and the Runner and an Ulf skilled up before I face any elves. And here I should mention that I have no intention of buying a Norse Thrower unless I’m swimming in money, and maybe not even then.

The twelve man roster, however, has some long term developmental dilemmas. The problem it raises could be posed thusly:

Realistically, I’m going to have a player with at least a Miss Next Game fairly often, maybe every other game. Do I tough it out for 4-6 games with 11 players, using Journeymen when necessary, and saving all my money for filling out my remaining positionals?

Or do I maintain a roster fielding 12 men each game, spending money for a couple of extra linos to replace losses, and delaying the completion of my ideal roster until games 8-10, and possibly even later? And if I loose a key positional, perhaps going into the playoffs short handed?

What with crowd surfing and all that block, is it unreasonable to expect a 11 man Norse team to maintain parity on the pitch with even a bashy team such as Orcs, especially early in the development curve? I don’t think so. I believe I’ll win most of my first 4-6 games either with the 11, or with the 12 player roster. So why not go with the 11?

EricK
"A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees."
William Blake Proverbs of Hell

[mattgslater]

I don't actually like the ST3 Norse positionals, so maybe I'm not the guy to ask.

[Dudegrip]

Hello all, thanks again for all the advice.

First game still a week away and I'm still undecided.

Unlike Matt, I do like the Norse positionals, so I'm inclined to start with my original roster, but delay my long term purchase schedule to include a 12th lineman ASAP.

On the other hand, Chance's suggestion of maxing frenzy and going down to 2 rerolls continues to intrigue me. Although I was initially resistant to the idea, I can see enormous potential for crowd-surfing players 4 or even more squares off the sideline with chain frenzy pushes. Is that the tactic you had in mind when you advocated 5 players with frenzy on the Norse team?

EricK
The tygers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
William Blake “Proverbs of Hell”

[Smurf]

With that much elf... you'll need tackle!