Talk Fantasy Football

I've been thinking about ways to develop a Dark Elf team beyond its initial steps and I think I have few a builds I'd like to test out, so I was naturally wondering if other people had comments or experiences.

First of all, Runners. I'm more and more dubious about these guys, simply because they are AV7, but I can't say I don't get any mileage out of them. I do like one on the team/field. I'll certainly forego them for the initial start-up and maybe for a longer time after that than I used to, but once your team has enough survival skills to not completely disappear off the field in brief bouts of opposing luck in blocks, I don't think the AV7 is necessarily that bad. I like the Move 7 on my ball carrier, who doesn't have to be a Blitzer and while Dump Off is not an excellent skill, I do like it when it is on the field.

If I position my Runner for Dump Offs (not out there waiting for the Block of course, but protected in a pocket with an eye for dumping off), why not give him Wrestle? That's not the usual choice for a Runner (or a ball carrier!), but if he is there only to move the ball along when the enemy breaks into my cage/pocket/screen, why not have an ability that stunts the opponent's strike while at it? Potentially bringing the blitzing opponent down can be a big improvement to my maneuverability or counter blocking on my next turn.

Next up, Linemen. Block/Dodge, Wrestle/Dodge and Wrestle/Fend all are relatively obvious alternatives and I'm not here to debate which alternative is best. Instead, I'm forwarding Wrestle/Diving Tackle as the alternative, with Sidestep/Dodge as the third and fourth choices (with perhaps Fend or Tackle replacing Dodge).

Basically, the idea is to capitalize on Dark Elven defensive expertise, but do it in a way that does not risk the expensive Blitzers and Witch Elves. Usually when time comes to do or die and break the shell of the cage, marking the ball carrier with one or a couple of Sidestepping Diving Tackle players, it tends to be the Blitzers (with their superior skill progression) who get put in there.

In this scheme the Blitzers are an offensive echelon or counter-defensive screen that provides the elastic, hard to crack spine to the team (with Block/Dodge/Sidestep before anything else enters the picture), while the Linemen get placed in the more dangerous spots. The pay off is that even if your scheme fails, your team maintains cohesion. Also, the inclusion of Wrestle placed against the opposing ball carrier and his escort has advantages though ; if any of the cage players go down in trying to extricate themselves this will again markedly weaken the opposing offense for the coming turns. The negative is that at only two skills the Wrestle/Diving Tackle players are not as good at their duty as a corresponding +2 skill Blitzer. The question that nags me is that will those players work adequately enough without Sidestep (because you're probably not likely to have too many three skill Linemen around)? Alternatively, one Blitzer (with Sidestep and Diving Tackle) can pair up with one or two Linemen in this fashion, bringing at least some of that Sidestepping glue to the mix. of course, instead of a Blitzer, it can be an experienced Lineman.

I'm not actually sure that is not all that novel, but it is different from how I usually think about divvying up roles in a Dark Elf defense.

For the linos I don't think diving tackle would be ideal without dodge and ss. You'd just be bashed away instead and without dodge you go down easier. But guess it depends on the opposition..

I entirely agree with the concept of giving Wrestle to a Runner, but I would get him in your starting lineup. Runners can quickly get skills, and a fast Wrestle, Tackle (Dodge) player is worth a lot, especially since it is only 10k more expensive, and much more useful than a rookie Witch Elf and that Witch will a) not be in the starting lineup, and thus will take time to get and develop, and b) be a much bigger target.

I had never considered wrestle on the runner, but it's an interesting move.

Wrestle on a player with diving tackle, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense to me.

Gaixo wrote:I had never considered wrestle on the runner, but it's an interesting move.

Wrestle on a player with diving tackle, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense to me.

You need to get a different player to blitz him off, and can't simply block him away with the carrier to keep the cage in place. (Okay, you can, but the carrier's Block skill doesn't matter). Also, after SS, it makes it that much easier to stay on and strip next turn.

Gaixo wrote:I had never considered wrestle on the runner, but it's an interesting move.

Wrestle on a player with diving tackle, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense to me.

Wrestle on the runner is great, but then it alomst necessitates nerves as your third skill if you are planning on capitalizing on the dumpoffs when they happen.

Progression is something like Wrestle, Dodge, Nerves, pick 2 of (tackle/side step/diving tackle/shadowing) (but not diving tackle and shadowing :p).

I don't take Sure Hands often on the Runners because of AG4. I like to build them as safeties so they are out of the way on defense but still effective

nick_nameless wrote:

Gaixo wrote:I had never considered wrestle on the runner, but it's an interesting move.

Wrestle on a player with diving tackle, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense to me.

Wrestle on the runner is great, but then it alomst necessitates nerves as your third skill if you are planning on capitalizing on the dumpoffs when they happen.

Progression is something like Wrestle, Dodge, Nerves, pick 2 of (tackle/side step/diving tackle/shadowing) (but not diving tackle and shadowing :p).

I don't take Sure Hands often on the Runners because of AG4. I like to build them as safeties so they are out of the way on defense but still effective

I'd say go Wrestle, Dodge, Tackle, NOS. His role as a safety is more important than his role as a Ballcarrier.

I'm not a fan of wrestle on the runner. If he takes block and manages to get rid of the ball then he has a chance to be upright forming a part of your new screen. With wrestle he goes down, creating a gap which another opposition player may be in a position to run through, marking your new ball carrier. Blodge, pass, accurate is my preferred build as it opens up the passing game while not leaving you too badly off for the dump off option unless you royally screw things up.

I think I read about Wrestle on the Dark Elf Runner about a year ago on bbtactics.com

It made a lot of sense to me and worked out marvelously on the DE team I was coaching at the time. My skill progression was NOS, Wrestle, and Dodge, and if I had taken a second runner it probably would have been the same.

As some have noted, Wrestle makes the Runner a fantastic defender, especially early on in development, since most sane DE coaches delay bringing in Witch Elves until after the initial build, and the team will be lacking wrestle until they do. However, I picked NOS first, because it combines so well with Dump Off, and with all the additional completions, the Runner skills up again much more rapidly than if he got wrestle first.

Dump off is a fantastic skill, enabling a ball carrier to function much like the option quarterback in American college football. Needless to say, I hardly recommend letting the Runner get hit on purpose, but DO turns out to be surprisingly useful on defense as well, allowing a break away run with a safety valve on the off chance the opposition finds some miraculous way to dodge through with a blitz. NOS is also useful for allowing the Runner to run in, pick up the ball, then pass away without a penalty. For this reason, the next skill I might have picked for the NOS, W, D Runner was Sure Hands, although Side Step was the leading candidate.

Hope more who have used wrestle chime in,

EricK
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William Blake “Proverbs of Hell”