Where would you put HMP on a wood elf team?

[Fronko]

Hi out there!

I'm thinking about using HMP on my wood elf team. After getting the ball free, I first try to make a TD the conventional way, pick up - move - quick pass - move - handover - move - TD. But this very much requires the right players in the right spot.

So, I'm trying to get another alternative working. I usually have one or two players in the oppos half anyway. So I thought, getting an HMP way down the oppos half out of any of his players range (but in that of one of my guys) might prove working.

Note that I do not intend to do that HMP - Diving Catch stunt, it's really only getting the ball as clse to opposing end zone to snatch it up on the next turn for an easy TD.

Now, I actually come to my questions:

a) Do you think, this tactic is worth trying (consider, that this is my second alternative, if the usual way won't work)?

b) On which position would you take HMP? I don't want to take it with my throwers, they need other skills. Wardancers are out, too, so it's only catchers or linemen ... And, yes, I know, that HMP requires doubles...

[narkotic]

I'm thinking about using HMP on my wood elf team. After getting the ball free, I first try to make a TD the conventional way, pick up - move - quick pass - move - handover - move - TD. But this very much requires the right players in the right spot.

You play Elfs, right? You can do that move with ANY of your players and we're talking here of three 2+ rolls(!) Other races would have problems, but not Elfs. Why bother changing to a risky HMP which bounces 3 squares (and supposedly into the crowd or towards your opponent) when you can handle the ball (including Long bombs with a 1-2 skill Thrower) in other ways.

And furthermore you want sacrifice a double for HMP bc. you do not want your thrower to have it?

I guess it's the best to give your Thrower HMP as his 3th or 4th skill, but before that give your catcher NOS and try passing to them regardless if they covered or not. HMP is just an extra for special circumstances, not the normal strategy any Elf Coach should play (it suits more Chaos Dwarfs IMO).

[DoubleSkulls]

a) Do you think, this tactic is worth trying (consider, that this is my second alternative, if the usual way won't work)?

b) On which position would you take HMP? I don't want to take it with my throwers, they need other skills. Wardancers are out, too, so it's only catchers or linemen ... And, yes, I know, that HMP requires doubles...

I think you've answered your own question. If you aren't prepared to take it on a thrower then you are wasting a double (Dauntless/Guard are very hard to say no to).

[narkotic]

What you could do is to take a second thrower, give him HMP as his first skill and use him when you're the defensive team.
I guess that's the best solution if you really want to use HMP with an Elf team. As Ianwilliams said, don't waste a double on a lineelf for HMP and a
thrower with Strong Arms is a lot more usefull than HMP.

[Toby]

Defensive Lineup.

Hail Marry Pass, Kick, Dirty Player

Have a look at "Passing for Pro's"

[narkotic]

Actually he said that he did not want to use the HMP-Diving catch combo.

Anyway, where Kick comes into play with HMP? or have these been just general skill recommendations?

[Toby]

The strategy i described in the other topic doesnt require diving catch.
Its dump and chase, fire the ball down the field and run after it.

Kick is usefull on the thrower because all other players need more important skills like block & guard or dodge for linemen.

So the thrower is basically the speciallist to kick the ball and fire it away if it ever comes back near him.

[Boss]

Any coach who allows this play Toby suggests must be "tactically challenged" since it required the catchers to be all alone with no player within range to pick up a loose ball (not to mention knock over that catcher who's on his own while the rest of the team is defending).

[narkotic]

Kick is usefull on the thrower because all other players need more important skills like block & guard or dodge for linemen.

So the thrower is basically the speciallist to kick the ball and fire it away if it ever comes back near him.

Maybe that's how you play it but as long as kick is not implemented in the game beyond the kick-off sequence it makes no sense to give your positional players kick. I always give kick to a lineman, I won't waste a skill of my thrower as there are 4-5 skills more important to a thrower which he definitely needs more than kick.

[Fronko]

Maybe I should clarify a bit.

You can do that move with ANY of your players and we're talking here of three 2+ rolls(!)

Yes, I´m well aware of that. And (I´m sure, you recognised that) I also said, that I´m trying to do the "standard" TD attempt, if possible. I know, (from personal experience) that it is something you can achieve easily with wood elves - as long as you have your specialist players in the right position. But this last thing may not always be the case. If I don´t have my thrower nearby, I can´t do that long pass/bomb (I won´t do it with a lineman for sure). Or if there is noone "in the middle" i.e. someone, who can take the ball from the one picking it up, then move it towards the dedicated scorer, I can´t get it to my receiver.

To sum it up: In those cases, where the standard wood elf "snatch-up-the-ball-from-under-their-nose-then-do-that-coast-to-coast-stunt-to-make-a-touchdown" procedure WILL NOT work, I want someone with HMP on the field who simply hurls it to the other end of the field. Hopefully I will have someone closeby to make the touchdown next turn.

... it's the best to give your Thrower HMP as his 3th or 4th skill ...

I intend to develop an offensive and a defensive thrower. Offensive will be (assuming nothing extreme concerning doubles/stat increases):
Accurate, Sure Hands, Safe Throw, Block. NoS or Strong Arm on doubles.

Defensive will be: Block, Dodge, Sure Hands, Dump-Off, Safe Throw. NoS on doubles. That´s at least five essential skills per thrower which I would prefer over HMP. Even for wood elf throwers, 101 SPPs is a long way to go, and I want that HMP option earlier... That´s why I don´t want it on a thrower...

But try to convince me, what skill in my list would you exchange for HMP?

[Jerhod]

I don't think that Hail Mary Pass is as useful for Wood Elves as it is for other races. Given the Wood Elves' high movement and AG 4 you should be fine for long passes/long bombs which cover a good portion of the board. I understand that HMP gives to the option of getting rid of the ball, and I understand that you may not always have your players in position for a pass-hand off-score combo, but you should always be able to get one player in range of a long bomb if you need to get the ball far away from the current ball carrier.

I think that Hail Mary Pass is much more useful for slower teams who can't pull off the pass-hand off-score combo, or for teams with AG 3 who only have a few good catchers.

With respect to your Offensive/Defensive Throwers, I like the idea of giving your throwers different uses. I prefer to think of them as "Long-Range" and "Short-Range" throwers, though, but that's just me being picky with my words. For my short-range thrower I usually get Dump Off as my first skill, which is the only suggestion I would make to your skill progression.

[Toby]

Narcotic I think you do not understand the idea because you don't consider it an valid strategy. Assuming you field one thrower offensively, and one defensively. Well offensive is totaly clear i guess. But defence:

Code: Select all

         LLL
       W  L  W
 L  C      T        C  L

Linemen need Block as their first Skill to hold the line. The Wardancers need tackle to blitz down receivers. The "defensive catchers" get block to remain on their feet. The thrower gets Hail Marry to make the play availiable.

Now, make your linemen hold the line as good as they can.
Use your wardancers to knock down a Receiver or open gap to their thrower.
Move your Catchers in to sack their thrower if possible.

As soon as they pass the ball, hope for them to drop it in any way.
Pick it up with your hail marry guy. Fire it on the other side of the field and try to reach it first with your MA9 Bock/Dodge catchers to run the ball home and score.

[narkotic]

I completely understand what you want to tell me. I know how to play with HMP but why do you want to give Kick to your Thrower instead to someone else, that's the question? Why waste the chance to have accurate or safe throw (or HMP) and to give a thrower kick when its a general skill and everybody can get and use it.

[DoubleSkulls]

Code: Select all

         LLL
       W  L  W
 L  C      T        C  L

Please let me roll Quick Snap

[Skummy]

Even if you don't get a quick snap, you get to beat the crap out of those skill players. Hmm. Who does my Piling On, Tackle, Mighty Blow blitzer want to hit... The catcher or the Wardancer?