DE vs. Dwarves

hawkeye · Post by **hawkeye** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:46 pm

I've got a 126 TR DE team with 1 Thrower, 2 Blitzers, 1 WE, and 8 Linemen (2 RR & 6FF) going up against a 131 TR Dwarf team with 6 Longbeards, 2 Runners, 2 Blitzers, and 2 Trollslayers (1 FF and 4 RR).

My passer has accurate, one of my blitzer's has dodge, and I have one lineman with Jump-up ( a mistake I realized after the fact). I have one linemen with an available skill - I'm thinking block at this point.

The dwarves have three longbeards with Guard, one runner with block, and both TS's have mighty blow.

Other than "dodge out whenever possible", does anyone have any suggestions for the Elf team?

In the only other game I played the DE vs Dwarves(using Javabowl to simulate the game), the Elves got creamed, so I am a little concerned.

Asperon Thorn · Post by **Asperon Thorn** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:10 pm

I have failed completely at this match up, as well. My best advice is get Kick on that linelf with a skill, so you can place the ball where you want. Hopefully you can run into places and make trouble before he "Dwarf's up."

Asperon Thorn

hawkeye · Post by **hawkeye** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:15 pm

Kick sounds like a great idea. Thanks.

On offense I don't see much in the way of problems. Concentrate on a side, blast a hole, and outrun him with my blitzers and WE. That should work as long as I don't roll a ton of 1's like in my last league game.

It's defending the cage that is troublesome to me. In order to defend against it, you have to get in contact, and that seems to be when the dwarves cream the elves.

grep-v · Post by **grep-v** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:23 pm

hawkeye wrote: Other than "dodge out whenever possible", does anyone have any suggestions for the Elf team?

Yes, several answers:
1. Die with dignity. And if you can't, then don't cry too loud.
2. Steal his blocking dice and insist that the LRB says you have to roll them and he hasn't any and so he can't block and his mother is ugly.
3. Make your dice rolls all 6s and Clear Knockdowns.
4. Abduct his cat and threaten him.
5. Begin the game with 5 TDs.

Oh, you wanted some "politically" correct advice?
Dodge out whenever possible!

Sorry & ciao

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:38 pm

just played a game DE-Dwarves...

i played the first half dodging away everywhere, and scoring in turn 8 (with some luck)

I gave a blitzer leap to get into cages...he used it succesfully today, not to go into the cage, but to score.

Second half i wanted to stop him, but i kept forgetting about his frenzy, so i ended up with trying to stop his cage from scoring for 4 turns with 4 DE...
and it almost worked...failed a 4+dodge for a 1 die block

Kick would have helped definitely...but simple skills like block/dodge/surehands can be of great help as well...

W

Jerhod · Post by **Jerhod** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:18 pm

I'm still looking for a good answer to this question myself.....

I've had much more experience with playing Dwarves than Elves, and as a Dwarven coach I've had great fun playing against Elven teams if they don't know what they are doing. The best help I can give you is to tell you what I've found to be very frustrating as a Dwarf coach playing agianst Elven coaches.

The first thing I find incredibly annoying is being unable to through lots of 2-die blocks. This is usually thanks to a lot of dodging out. Yes, I know that you already know this, but do not underestimate its value.

When you dodge out try to spread yourself out a bit... You don't want to make a hole that Dwarves can run (walk quickly?) through, but if you can get the Dwarves to go one-on-one with your Elves then on your following turn you can run up another Elf for an assist and get a 2-die block against the Dwarven player. With Block, Think Skull, and AV 9 they are hard to take down, but often if you can just stun a couple key Dwarven players and move around them you can put yourself in a good position.

When blocking, try to arrange the blocks so that if you get a pushback result you can push the Dwarf near another Elf, follow up, and then throw another 2-die block. Again, this is just general good practice, but general good practice is called "general" for a reason.

Usually you should not follow up after a pushback unless you can continue to throw a block against the Dwarf. You want to provide as few opportunities for counter-blocks as possible.

Plan ahead for what you're going to do with your pushback results. Pushbacks are fine; they allow you to dictate the movement of the Dwarven player. With MA 4 the Dwarves can't get very far, so with a few coordinated pushbacks you can really throw their team out of position. In general you want the Dwarven team in two places: all corralled into the cage as tightly as possible or very far away from the cage. If you can arrange some pushbacks that will get either to occur, you should go for it. Keeping Dwarves who are away from the cage where they are is a top priority, and possibly one of the only cases in which you should leave an Elf in base contact with the Dwarf to force a block instead of allowing the Dwarf to move. Or it forces the Dwarf to blitz you to get back to the cage, but then the cage can't use a blitz to move forward, which is fine by you.

Always stay two squares away from the cage. Again, good general practice.

Make sure that you have overlapping tackle zones between the cage and your endzone as possible so that a blitz, even from a Slayer, can't give the Runner a way to the endzone. Leave a couple of Elves behind the cage, if you can afford to, to force the Dwarven player to protect the rear of the cage. This usually forces the cage to be more compact, which is what you want; compact cages are easier to surround.

The key to getting the ball from a Dwarven team is usually to wait for the Dwarven player to slip up. If everything goes well the Dwarf player will be moving one square towards the endzone each turn and in four or five turns will start panicking about being able to score. This usually causes the Runner to split off from the group, and you should try to nab said Runner.

Anywho, my two cents.

Jerhod · Post by **Jerhod** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:20 pm

Something to add, never be afraid of fouling. If you haven't chosen your skill on your lineelf yet I'd go with Dirty Player. It will give you a good chance of taking out a lone Runner/Slayer and significantly reducing the options of the Dwarven coach.

Kamikaze Rudy · Post by **Kamikaze Rudy** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:35 am

The best advice I've ever seen for Elf teams, is not to play defense at all once the cage is formed. You could try to stand toe to toe with a bashing team and it may even work, but at what cost? Make sure he scores a TD as soon as he can by pressuring him down the field, but don't try to tie up a Dwarf team in an effort to steal the ball away from him. You will end up with a full injury box. Pressure his back field, and try to get him before he makes his cage. That kick would probably be a good idea for the game. Seems like a waste of a skill, but pinning the ball against the Dwarves is a good way to beat them.

Jerhod · Post by **Jerhod** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:14 am

Kamikaze Rudy wrote:Make sure he scores a TD as soon as he can by pressuring him down the field, but don't try to tie up a Dwarf team in an effort to steal the ball away from him. You will end up with a full injury box. Pressure his back field, and try to get him before he makes his cage.

Good point.

The key, as you say, is to put significant pressure on your opponent to score so you have time for a 2- or 3-turn TD in response.

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:41 am

It is never fun to "let them score", but on the other hand you don't get spps for stoping them from scoring. So 2-1 in a halv is perhaps better than 1-0, aspecially if that means you save some of your players.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:51 am

On Defense, if you can't get to the ball before he forms a cage (and if you can't prevent a cage being formed, by isolating his ball carrier from his other players), slow down the cage to a crawl, by keeping one square away from it. Surround the cage, and wait until he starts to get nervous, until he starts to make mistakes, then, when you get the chance, move in and get the ball loose. Pick it up, pass, run out of his reach and score.

But letting him score quickly might also work; if he doesn't decide to stall...

R

Victula · Post by **Victula** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:40 pm

they always STALL (and i hate stall)

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:34 pm

hmm, yes they mostly stall. Force the cage to only move 1 quare per turn, is the general idea then.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:19 am

Stalling only works when YOU allow it to work; if he stalls, get some players close to threaten his Ball Carrier; forcing him to score, and make sure you hit his other players as hard as they hit you (either by hitting them and fouling if possible, or else by dodging away!)

R

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 9:20 am

Try to stop the cage forming. If the ball kicks deep get 3-4 players between the ball and LOS. Hopefully this will either force him to cage up very deep or make a risky play to move the ball to safety in his turn 2.

Once he's caged up be patient and slow his advance to a crawl. Only really throw players at it towards the end of the half.

You can try pinning the back players on the cage (blitzing one out of the way to get near the ball carrier) but unless you are lucky this won't result in a turnover and will eventually lead to KOs and casualties on your team.

Hopefully he'll make a mistake or Nuffle will curse him so you'll be able to pop the ball loose and score from it.

On offence spread the play - Dwarves are slow so you can drag them out of position quite easily.

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DE vs. Dwarves

DE vs. Dwarves

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