Bull Centaur

[Rufio of Montrose]

What do you think of this developments for a BC
PO
Block
St. Firm
Tackle

The other one
Block
BTackle
Sure Hands
Tackle
In a team with:
Of my 6 Dwarves, 4 have Guard, one with St 4
one of the other Stand Firm
And 6 Hobbos: 4 with block of which one with dirty P. , other with SH, and other with Leader. 1 with +1Ag.

And last but not least a troll with P.O. and Block
FF:4
RR:5
CA:5
With Ap.
I have already read several reports and list about the dev. of a Bc. I want to know what do you think of mainly the first one
Thanks Rufio of Montrose

[Jerhod]

What do you think of this developments for a BC
PO
Block
St. Firm
Tackle

The other one
Block
BTackle
Sure Hands
Tackle

Bull Centaurs are your "star players," so to speak, acting as blitzers, scorers, and targets. I think that Block is the best choice for a first skill because it aids in throwing blocks, keeping the ball, and increasing the B.Centaur's survivability.

I don't think that Piling On is a good skill for a B.Centaur because it severly limits the movement and flexibility of the player. With your MA 4 C.Dwarves you're already a bit behind in the movement and flexibility departments, and I'd rather have my B.Centaurs standing and able to throw blocks and/or sprint up to a full 9 squares. Piling On is good for taking out opponent's other players, but I think that a Troll with PO would be a better option. I think that it's better to focus on having your B.Centaurs knock the opposing players down, not necessarily on dealing the most damage.

I think that Tackle would be a good second skill as it increases the B.Centaur's ability to knock down opposing players and increase the probability of creating a turn over. Sure Hands is also a good second skill for having the B.Centaur being able to get to a dropped ball and claim it, and for keeping the ball when faced with opponents who have Strip Ball. It's hard to get the ball from a player with ST 4 who can move 9 squares if you can't use Strip Ball. I often see coaches have one B.Cantaur get Tackle as a second skill and give the other Sure Hands as a second skill for balance.

I think that Break Tackle is a good third skill for any B.Centaur. I think that Block and Tackle/Sure Hands are more important skills and should come first, but Break Tackle is a very good third skill, improving the ability of a B.Centaur to score and get to the opposing ball carrier.

On a doubles roll I don't think that I would go with Stand Firm. You have 6 Dwarves who can roll doubles and get Stand Firm. I think that the best skills for a B.Centaur on doubles are Dodge, esp. when combined with Break Tackle, and even Catch. Dodge increases B.Centaur's survivability and flexilibity, and having a flexible ST 4 player with Dodge and a 2+ dodge roll is very nice. Catch is surprisingly useful even with AG 2, giving you a reasonable catcher with ST 4 and movement 9.

I think that you're on the right track with your progressions; I don't think that they need to be modified too much.

Best,
-Jerhod-

[cani]

In my opinion it really depends on what kind of opponents you are facing as well as your own playing style.

Personally I would never take Piling On, as I don't believe in voluntarily placing af ST4 player face down. Then again that depends on your playing style.

I use my Bull Centaurs as ball carriers (scorers) and thus I take Block, Break Tackle, Tackle and then maybe sure hands (or possible Piling On if you really want it).

Block should be your first skill in order to save those rerolls (you need them for ball handling).
Break Tackle gives the Bull Centaur a better chance og being af threat to those wood elves with MA9 as he can dodge around tackle zones to get to them.
Tackle is needed in order to block the opponents ball carrier with some success.

Piling On really depends on how you play Chaos Dwarves. Personally I need those MA9 og therefore never take Piling On on them. Also you have severel regular dwarves, who can get mighty blow and piling on, so don't worry about those casualties; they will come to you.

[Skummy]

I would be looking to get both of my BC's Break Tackle early on, as they're simply some of the best blitzers in the game. Dodge is a good choice on doubles, since you can reroll the skill.

[Jerhod]

I would be looking to get both of my BC's Break Tackle early on, as they're simply some of the best blitzers in the game.

How early? Sooner than skill three?

Dodge is a good choice on doubles, since you can reroll the skill.

I get a point!

[Skummy]

For a defensive BC, it would be skill #2, after block. For an offensive BC, it would be #3, after Sure Hands and Block.

[DoubleSkulls]

Dodge is a good choice on doubles, since you can reroll the skill.

I'd prefer Stand Firm myself - then you can't possibly fail to dodge and it has a lot of uses on offence.

[Jerhod]

For a defensive BC, it would be skill #2, after block. For an offensive BC, it would be #3, after Sure Hands and Block.

Hmmm... I think that I can agree with that.



I'd like to note that I am against labeling players as "offensive" and "defensive" in this fashion. In previous posts I've tried to get away from offensive/defensive throwers and talk about long range/short range throwers. Similarly, I've tried to talk about offensive/defensive blitzers in terms of blitzers who focus on causing turnovers and blitzers who focus on scoring. I think that being specific about the roles a player is involved with is more productive for communication and for team planning.

This isn't meant as a criticism to Skummy at all; it's a general statement about how people discuss and describe their players and I thought that this is a good example of the labelling of "offensive" and "defensive".

[Skummy]

Oh, I quite understand. Mostly the "offensive" BC isn't helped out too much by Break Tackle, except when he's playing disruption in the opponen't backfield. I label players for whatever primary purpose they serve, but always understand that a "defensive" Gutter Runner with Blodge, Sidestep and Diving Tackle is still a massive scoring threat.

[sean newboy]

Im surprised no one is championing Catch on doubles rather than stand firm. If sure hands is good why not catch? Its not hard to sooner or later get pass on at least 1 hob.

[Skummy]

Dodge helps keep you upright, and it makes it much easier for you to play defense and dodge away. Catch is a good skill, but it's just not in my gameplan. If one of my players has to catch the ball, then I'll use a reroll on it. You can't use a reroll on a !Kapow...

[Jerhod]

Im surprised no one is championing Catch on doubles rather than stand firm. If sure hands is good why not catch? Its not hard to sooner or later get pass on at least 1 hob.

Hey, I said that Catch was a good idea!

[sean newboy]

My apologies, Jerhod, did not see that.

[Jerhod]

My apologies, Jerhod, did not see that.

No problem...

[Tim]

I always take break tackle as the first skill (if not a double or -bless hashut- a stat increase). Why?

Without break tackle, the BCs can easily be tied up by a Blackorc, Chaos Warrior, a dodging player or a cheap lineman. They get limited to dare a 4+ dodge to do some real business or just smack a block at the useless player next to them. Once they have Break tackle, they are just a 2+ away from performing important actions, empowered by their good movement (long range blitzes or scoring).

So i'd go break tackle, block, surehands or strip ball, maybe mighty blow if you look for damage (and consider standfirm and catch on a double). I'd never choose piling on on a BC, as they are too expensive and important for your game to place them prone. Give pileon to a troll and maybe some CDs (+3 Armour is still not bad).