Talk Fantasy Football

That would be because of the Bretonnian team, I suspect. The players with shields are even called Yeomen...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gr ... oject_link

Yea, it just makes no sense that they are charging for non-play-tested teams. Maybe the rationale is that game magazines used to carry this sort of random stuff that the readers could read through and decide what they like, etc. I'm more familiar with Dragon magazine by TSR, and that's how that operated, but I'm guessing it has been similar in White Dwarf?

At any rate, a per team price for random stuff seems like a very odd model though. It's almost like saying 'Hey kids, here's some imaginary unicorns you can buy instead of a car'. Of course, you know that once they actually pay for those imaginary, they are going to demand that they can drive them on the highway as well!

I don't mind optional random stuff, as it is clear and you're not paying stupid prices for it in an app. Hopefully no one buys them and they see it's an epic fail and move the content to a different platform.

With apologies for repeating a point made above, I have to pile on here (and not just because I played with Chaos recently) -

I'm no game designer, but I've played this game a few times over the last 25+ years, and it's completely over the top to give the Human Nobility team ST3 catchers, 2 ogres (!!) and 4 6338 players who START with Block and Guard for 90k (!!!) unless they have lots of stunties, negatraits, or limited skill access to balance the team.

Are we doing power creep in Blood Bowl now? Should I reserve some cash for a potential dwarf roster with ST4 slayers and blitzers with AG access (0-4 each, no more than 10k higher cost) coming in a few months?

DaFoola wrote:With apologies for repeating a point made above, I have to pile on here (and not just because I played with Chaos recently) -

I'm no game designer, but I've played this game a few times over the last 25+ years, and it's completely over the top to give the Human Nobility team ST3 catchers, 2 ogres (!!) and 4 6338 players who START with Block and Guard for 90k (!!!) unless they have lots of stunties, negatraits, or limited skill access to balance the team.

Are we doing power creep in Blood Bowl now? Should I reserve some cash for a potential dwarf roster with ST4 slayers and blitzers with AG access (0-4 each, no more than 10k higher cost) coming in a few months?

Don't forget that the Catchers have P access and the Linemen have A access!

If this is how GW plan to "playtest" new races, I suggest they rethink their strategy to something with a bit more rigour.

So Milo said he had Andy's ear and was looking over new stuff along with another player coach.

So Milo did he let you see this idea at all? Are you allowed to say? Understand if you cannot. But that Nobles team is just bad ... really really really bad ... (did I mention how bad it is).

First of all I like the concept. Warhammer army books have (or had no idea anymore) alternative army lists in the back of the book. I've wanted this for BB for a long time. I'd like to see more rosters, and more tiers. I believe this would actually make leagues/tournaments more competitive as the teams in each tier would be closer matched to each other. For example a tournament could be open to tier 2 & 3 teams. In short, more tiers, more choice, more teams closer to each other (competitively).

Secondly, how............can they make money from this? After all it's just a roster list, which..........has already been discussed here........making buying it rather pointless. I can't see there being much money to be made from this venture.

Thirdly, what I would like to see and what I've wanted for a long time is for these experimental rosters to have semi legal status. That being up to commissioners whether or not they're legal. However, not like these..........that human team is a pile of dog poo. No real fluff, no real thought and bolted on skills. It looks to me like they've been looking at Plasmoid's/PBeM stuff again......a nod to the Brets and the frenzy Savage Orcs.

I'd much rather they added 'famous' teams; similar to the standard rosters, but with little changes. Much safer and adds a bit of colour to established rosters.

IMHO Savage Orcs are ok. Low tier team to play for fun for crazy people. I must say I quite like it.

Human Nobilty is bad. There is a reason no player (but Slibili) starts with Guard and Guard should not be priced like any other skill.
Moreover No team with ST 3+ players should have only 0-1 big guy choiches. (edit)

BUT

If you try to make a roster of them you will find they are so pricey...... you can't do much with them.
The linemen at 70k with AG 3 are terrible. And you can't ignore them.
The princelings are pound for pound one of the worst players of the game. A ghoul with catch and pro for 110k.... These guys make slann blitzers look overpowered.
But you can just ignore them. These guys fluffwise should be the point of the team...and nobody will ever play them. Bad, bad design.
Bodyguards are simply crazy OP. Guard should be considered like block and dodge in calculating value (block + guard 60k).

If this roster had only one ogre I wouldn't hate it so much.... If bodyguards lost Block OR guard and gained AV 9, I think they would be ok.

Turnament wise I don't think they can break the game... even if very powerful they are a team with AG 3 that has 11 players, 1 RR and average move.
Even with 2 ogres they are not so crazy powerful. If we start a touney with 130 TV it might be different....

League wise the start very powerful because of guard...but cost of players will really hurt them... and Redrafting is gonna RAPE them.

I am non defending them.... I dislike them, but I am non so worried about the team.
I am worried about the people making it....

Rolex wrote: Moreover No team with ST 3+ players should have more than 1 big guy.

Are you saying that chaos pact/renegades should be removed or reworked?

Pedda wrote:

Rolex wrote: Moreover No team with ST 3+ players should have more than 1 big guy.

Are you saying that chaos pact/renegades should be removed or reworked?

Sorry I did not say it right. It is a rule I read in the race creation formula, not an opinion.

It goes like this more or less:
"Big Guys in ST 3+ races are limited to 0-1".

Chaos Pact is "all right" because it has 3 "0-1" big guys.

Thank you for noticing. I will correct it.

My app crashes when trying to create one of the new teams. Oh well!

Rolex wrote:

Pedda wrote:

Rolex wrote: Moreover No team with ST 3+ players should have more than 1 big guy.

Are you saying that chaos pact/renegades should be removed or reworked?

Sorry I did not say it right. It is a rule I read in the race creation formula, not an opinion.

It goes like this more or less:
"Big Guys in ST 3+ races are limited to 0-1".

Chaos Pact is "all right" because it has 3 "0-1" big guys.

Thank you for noticing. I will correct it.

I think the point is rather that Chaos Pact are a current team which break the team creation rules (as do humans pre-modification, among others).
I'm not condoning the current activity and rather think Milo missed the point of Galak's first post here (as I read into Galak's first post what he spelled out in his second )

GalakStarscraper wrote:So Milo said he had Andy's ear and was looking over new stuff along with another player coach.

So Milo did he let you see this idea at all? Are you allowed to say? Understand if you cannot. But that Nobles team is just bad ... really really really bad ... (did I mention how bad it is).

This was not reviewed by the playtest group. I believe it may have been in the works for a long time.

mawph wrote: I'm not condoning the current activity and rather think Milo missed the point of Galak's first post here (as I read into Galak's first post what he spelled out in his second )

I'm not sure why you think I missed the point. Whether Galak was saying "this team sucks" or was saying "it sucks to be putting out rules in this fashion", my response is the same: I completely agree. As I stated before, this team did not get reviewed by the playtest group and I found out about it the same way most people did, by downloading the app.

That said, I do want to make two points:

1) These teams are clearly marked as experimental and only for use in fun leagues and one-off games. While I don't think the Human Nobility team is well-balanced against the other teams (Savage Orcs seem okay at first glance), I don't believe they will affect the competitive balance in tournaments or most serious leagues as a result.
2) I do generally believe that the production of new (optional) BB rules is a good thing. I'm not the kind of person who fears change.

I'm generally less concerned about these teams than, say, G&C.

Milo wrote:This was not reviewed by the playtest group. I believe it may have been in the works for a long time.

Does the app not state these are experimental?
Everyone who uses the app is now the playtest group.

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