Talk Fantasy Football

I was wondering if the bonus skills affected anyone's team choices? did it bring any new teams into play that you would not normally have played?
I know for Team Denmark the Bonus skills meant we had a Vampire team.

Any one with feedback on the bonus skills plz feel free to post

I played Pro Elves, but I don't feel the bonus skill came into play with that decision. I don't think we would have brought vampires without the bonus skills. The halflings might have been played regardless, just because of the cool-factor of playing halflings at Eurobowl

I already decided to play lizardmen, also i played in team and they needed me to make some result.
1 skill was just not enough for me to change to pro elves.
I would have tried it in europen.

changing the double for 2 skills on the same player and 1 more skill for tier 2 teams would have changed my mind i think.

My feeling whe taking out the team was that it wasn't enough to even it out. Vampires, Khemri, Nurgle and Humans was under consideration but of those only Vampires was really diserable and non of our players favoured that team. What was the team distrubution like, my impression was that almost every team was top tier?

Daniel/Coach Sweden

(What do people think of this?
Tier two, 1 doubbles start skill: Human, Khemri, Nurgle
Tier three, 2 non-doubbles start skills: Chaos, Chaos Pact, Elf, High Elf, Slann, Vampire
Tier four, 2 doubbles skill: Goblin, Ogre, Underworld.
Tier five, 2 doubbles+ 1 statincrease: Halfling)

Elyoukey wrote: changing the double for 2 skills on the same player and 1 more skill for tier 2 teams would have changed my mind i think.

Me too.

I think the opportunity to stack skills is more important for tier 2+ rosters because the problem of those roster is often that their players need to skillup to become playable. for chaos for exemple a block CW is not really better than a block saurus. but a block-claw CW make the team significativelly better i think (i actually never played chaos in 110 tourneys)
For pro elves or high elves also it is a good thing but not broken to have 3 blodgers
for slanns, a wrestle-stripball blitzer will also make the change they need, more than a guard lineman or a block kroxigor.

Elyoukey wrote:I think the opportunity to stack skills is more important for tier 2+ rosters because the problem of those roster is often that their players need to skillup to become playable. for chaos for exemple a block CW is not really better than a block saurus. but a block-claw CW make the team significativelly better i think (i actually never played chaos in 110 tourneys)
For pro elves or high elves also it is a good thing but not broken to have 3 blodgers
for slanns, a wrestle-stripball blitzer will also make the change they need, more than a guard lineman or a block kroxigor.

Hmm this is an interesting idea.

I dislike giving more skills to the teams than just those discussed here, why, because they were supposed to make them playable not better than the others.

Topper wrote:because they were supposed to make them playable not better than the others.

if we are speaking about a hardcore competition "playable" is not enough i think for people to change their mind. as stated if i was playing individual i would probably have played proelves because the 1 skill make them "fun" playable, but let them in the tier 2 box. ie you cannot beat a good undead coach with 1 more skill on the pro elves roster, you need something more significant (luck can do the trick, but cannot be controlled).

another path would be to have more players in the teams. so all power rosters are taken anyway, so you need to have good coaches with lower rosters. a team of 24 players would then be the optimum, but i guess most countries could not find them.

Imbalance is fine IMHO and I hope Ultimate Tier-Balance is something eurobowl will never strive for. The best thing about this system was that it made the unplayable races playable.

Elyoukey wrote:a team of 24 players would then be the optimum, but i guess most countries could not find them.

Perhaps if we're allowed to play several games simultaniously

I was fielding Pro Elves because of the additional skill, but from my point of view, it really did not make the team compete better overall.
I took Leader as the additional starting skill and when facing MissSchweden in round 6 with Vampires I thought that Vampires might belong to the tier 2 class. Having two additional skills made the Vampires pretty powerful compared to my extra skilled Pro Elves.I know its about rolling 1 for Bloodlust, but the Vampires were unstoppable with 8 skills.

Would I field Pro Elves again at the Eurobowl with the same skill set, I doubt it.
Eurobowl always tends to be bashy and good skilled coaches will play the best 8-9 available races, no matter if tier 2/3 teams will get one or two additional skills. There might be good coaches playing tier 2/3, but I believe this will be a rare event.
Have a look here to see all races played:
http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/EurOpen.htm

Nevertheless I had some fun playing Pro Elves and with 3-1-3 I could harvest at least 3.5 points.

mepmuff wrote:Imbalance is fine IMHO and I hope Ultimate Tier-Balance is something eurobowl will never strive for.

^^ This.

IMO Eurobowl is not the place to gamble on attempting to 'balance' races. It is about proper Blood Bowl. I would hate to get to the point where the nation that won was the one that best adapted to the tiering system.

I am also uncomfortable with Vampires having two extra skills. We've had a lot of tiered tournaments in the UK and have definitely had problems with people underrating Vampires and giving them too many skills.

Joemanji wrote:

mepmuff wrote:Imbalance is fine IMHO and I hope Ultimate Tier-Balance is something eurobowl will never strive for.

^^ This.

IMO Eurobowl is not the place to gamble on attempting to 'balance' races. It is about proper Blood Bowl. I would hate to get to the point where the nation that won was the one that best adapted to the tiering system.

I am also uncomfortable with Vampires having two extra skills. We've had a lot of tiered tournaments in the UK and have definitely had problems with people underrating Vampires and giving them too many skills.

Hmm okay - though you guys helped us play test it at the DanishOpen and said it was far from too powerful

But I do find it an issue that three races (UD, WE & zons) over 7 games wins 33% more than the 2nd best teams - and thats all tier 1 teams. The teams are not equally strong. However I do not feel the Vampires are stronger with this ruleset than any other tier 1 team. (And after all we´ve tested it quite alot)

Joemanji wrote:

mepmuff wrote:Imbalance is fine IMHO and I hope Ultimate Tier-Balance is something eurobowl will never strive for.

^^ This.

IMO Eurobowl is not the place to gamble on attempting to 'balance' races. It is about proper Blood Bowl. I would hate to get to the point where the nation that won was the one that best adapted to the tiering system.

I am also uncomfortable with Vampires having two extra skills. We've had a lot of tiered tournaments in the UK and have definitely had problems with people underrating Vampires and giving them too many skills.

In total agreement here. Eurobowl isn't about being fruity, it's about proper BB. Trying to add 'balance' is a road that would spoil things, IMO. The less additional skills / 'mixing it up' for teams, the better. You've the whole of the rest of the year for all of that stuff.

The Vampire thing is a judgement call. I certainly don't think they are as bad as adding two skills under your Danish system, but it's subjective, and hence not really worth grumbling over!

I think the system catered particularly well to Humans and Vampires. Humans especially.

I chose humans because having that extra guard is ridiculous.

However, I was a bit surprised when we got our day 2 skills on the tail end of day 1. Those extra skills greatly water down the advantage that humans and vampires get from the system. An extra skill on a vampire or blitzer is an amazing advantage but a 7th or 8th skill to beef up a lineman doesn't deliver in the same way.

I quite like the additional skills but adding further additional skills or stacking skills isn't the way to go. That sort of thing might work very well for high elves but it is pointless for some of the other teams. For example, I don't think halflings or goblins would give a toss. Underworld might care but probably not. If you want to encourage a greater variety of teams then you should look at allowing star players and other inducements.

I think it would be prudent to stick to very limited tweaks - which is why I think the bonus skill system is so beautiful on the other hand it would be a breath if fresh air if not everybody had Wood elfs, and you just might run into Nurgle
Perhaps accept that there are certain uber-teams, i.e. Tier0, and then award bonus skills according to the tier. (So, for example, undead would get 0 skills, Dark elfs 1 skill, vampires 2 skills and gobbos 3 skills.