Reconsidering the ruling on Khorne?

[SBG]

Those three teams have been accepted to tourneys since I don't know when. Many, many years for sure.

If you like playing them Valen, by all means, do! I'm not saying people to not play them. But I don't see the needs for another chaos team (or human team, for that matter) in the game.

And when I play tourneys, it's because I like the rating system and I want my games to be rated.

Fred

[Darkson]

Games involving rosters outside of this set of 24 will not be approved at present. In future we will be led by CRP (the official rules for tabletop Blood Bowl) regarding any changes to the rules of the game, including any new rosters.

They've covered the 3 "official but not in CRP" races already.


If/when I go back to tournaments after 2016 if Khorne are allowed in an event I'll play as a non-NAF coach (as the NAF rules allow me to).
ARBBL won't be allowing Khorne or Brets - Fimir will be in before either of them.

[spubbbba]

Then a few years later, another supplement came out. With Norse, Amazons, Lizardmen. "OMG those teams are broken! I'll never let those in my league!". Now they are a standard part of Blood Bowl (although Norse have gone through a few revisions since then).

I'm not sure about that, those rosters were in the Journal first each released individually along with a lot of other teams. Including adding daemons from all 4 gods to chaos teams. Some of the journal teams being included in a new supplement would be less of a shock as they had already been seen as optional teams.

Mind you they were correct about Amazons, they have always been a horrible roster and should be fixed/removed before we add any new teams IMO.

[Digger Goreman]

15 pages... really...?

Well, since y'all gonna be here a while, southern hospitality demands I offers ya' some sweet tea wit' yer khorne bret....

[rolo]

15 pages... really...?

Well, since y'all gonna be here a while, southern hospitality demands I offers ya' some sweet tea wit' yer khorne bret....

Y'all Khorne back now ... ya hear?

(sorry, not from the South, couldn't resist)

[harvestmouse]

But I remember when Death Zone came out and the old-school second ed players were nearly screaming. Six new teams! They'll never let any of those in their league. "GW is just trying to make Warhammer with footballs!!". Those six teams were Wood Elves, Chaos Dwarves, Halflings, Undead, Goblin, Chaos. Would Blood Bowl really be better off without them?

Along with what Spubbbba said, I take issue with this.

Why would the 'old-school second ed players' take issue with this? CD, Flings, Goblins were all available in 2nd ed. Chaos you could make to a degree, and undead too. WE were an aspect of the Elf team.

It maybe the Warhammer look you're thinking about which is not the issue here. Otherwise you're stating things that simply aren't factual.

If it were now, I think a lot of us would have a problem with the Zon and Norse rosters of the time. Most of the others that stuck they did a great job with.

[rolo]

Disclaimer: I never played 2nd ed. Sorry if it sounded like I was implying that. I started playing shortly after 3rd ed came out.

The point I was trying to make was that many of the old-school 2nd ed players who were teaching me to play Blood Bowl were complaining about 3rd ed, especially Death Zone. And I was comparing the complaints that I was listening to about Death Zone, which died down quickly once people got used to it, to the complaints that I was hearing (and saying!) about Norse, Amazons, etc, which died down quickly once people got used to them.
Those complaints about Death Zone, and Norse, and Amazons, sound to me a lot like the complaints we're hearing about Khorne today. My prediction is that IF Khorne gets accepted as an optional NAF team, we'll hear a lot of griping, it'll die down, and in the end it will be no big deal.

[BillyDee]

Although equally, if Khorne is outright rejected by the NAF (as opposed to the 'wait and see' current stance), we'll hear a bit of griping, it'll die down, and in the end it will be no big deal...

[Darkson]

+1.

[Xac]

So...we accept khorne, ok...and then appears bretonian in bloodbowl 2 and, well, if we accepted khorne, why not brets? And, holy s***...cyanide anounces Bloodbowl3, with Space Marines and Tyrannid teams.

Why not?

And...if GW changes the game, I will accept it (wether I like the changes or not), but I don't think cyanide has the rights to change the whole game...

[rolo]

Although equally, if Khorne is outright rejected by the NAF (as opposed to the 'wait and see' current stance), we'll hear a bit of griping, it'll die down, and in the end it will be no big deal...

Totally agree. Should be a fun party at Darkson's house too if that happens

I'll bring the Khorne Chips

[harvestmouse]

Disclaimer: I never played 2nd ed. Sorry if it sounded like I was implying that. I started playing shortly after 3rd ed came out.

The point I was trying to make was that many of the old-school 2nd ed players who were teaching me to play Blood Bowl were complaining about 3rd ed, especially Death Zone. And I was comparing the complaints that I was listening to about Death Zone, which died down quickly once people got used to it, to the complaints that I was hearing (and saying!) about Norse, Amazons, etc, which died down quickly once people got used to them.
Those complaints about Death Zone, and Norse, and Amazons, sound to me a lot like the complaints we're hearing about Khorne today. My prediction is that IF Khorne gets accepted as an optional NAF team, we'll hear a lot of griping, it'll die down, and in the end it will be no big deal.

Then you aren't understanding the issues at hand.

The second DZ (3rd edition) came out quite some time after the release of 3rd ed. So any player griping about DZ can't really be classed as a 2nd ed player, but rather a veteran player with some issues. I don't really remember anything too bad about 3rd ed DZ though.

There are serious issues with Norse and Zons. Anybody raising such issues at the time had a point. Now Norse and Zons would not get released as they were.

The issue with Khorne is vastly different and compares in only one way. That being oddly described. Playwise Norse and Zons fit oddly at low and high TV, have cookie cutter stats and it's now quite clear why they have the cookie cutter build.

Khorne play fine, there was mention about them being broken somewhere, but that's not realistic. They play fine. The problem is the roster does not in anyway describe Khorne. I just isn't what Khorne portrays to be, the god of blood. With that in mind, making a killer roster that's even more killy than what we had would have been crazy. Cyanide did not understand that and invented a poison chalice.

It would be along the same lines as 'ok let's add Dwarfs, but grind teams are extremely unpopular, so ......they can't be a grind team, maybe a passing team?' And that isn't an exaggeration. With the Khorne theme and the unpopularity of a killing team, plus other restrictions it was impossible to make a team that fit the bill for Khorne. It doesn't really have that much to do with a Warhammer/BB crossover. Just that Khorne should be the most killingest roster there is (which you couldn't do with certain broken combos) and monsters the size they are, need to be parallel to their strength, which they aren't.

[Gaixo]

The second DZ (3rd edition) came out quite some time after the release of 3rd ed.

Not too long. They both came out in '94 and at the time it seemed like they came out right on top of each other (I was a teenager, though, so might not have had the best sense of time passing). I don't differ with your larger point, but there were surely some 2nd-Ed. players that encountered Death Zone without having played much (or any) 3rd.

[sann0638]

The problem is the roster does not in anyway describe Khorne. I just isn't what Khorne portrays to be, the god of blood. With that in mind, making a killer roster that's even more killy than what we had would have been crazy. Cyanide did not understand that and invented a poison chalice.

Truncated quote, but this and the next bit makes a lot of sense to me, if we were starting with a blank sheet, and is well put.

However, Khorne now exist in the BB universe. The question is, do we include them and bring the majority of tabletop tournaments and the official online version together, or exclude them for reasons of fluff in the Warhammer universe?

My phrasing of the question shows my opinion, it could probably be phrased differently.

[Sandwich]

However, Khorne now exist in the BB universe. The question is, do we include them and bring the majority of tabletop tournaments and the official online version together, or exclude them for reasons of fluff in the Warhammer universe?

My phrasing of the question shows my opinion, it could probably be phrased differently.

Again: khorne exist in the "current" "official" online version - though not anywhere in their rules, and IIRC the rules they have on their own site do not include them (my be wrong, only played about 4 or 5 games of BB:CE). And when BB2 comes out (soon?), that becomes the new "current" "official" version, and khorne (along with a whole bunch of other teams) suddenly do not exist any more.

Have Cyanide announced plans of how they plan to fleece players / release new teams into BB2?

I guess my phrasing here probably shows my opinion