spleggy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:50 pm
1) I feel that being a member of Team England Euro/Europen team is a great honour but it's also a big responsibility. All coaches represent their countries but there is a particular spotlight on the selected 12. To say you're a diplomat is perhaps a little too grand but you're certainly a representative. What standards of sportsmanship and personal attributes to you think are most important?
2) For the last Eurobowl I had the impression that some coaches were unaware of the process. They didn't know who else had put themselves forward and were unaware of the thread of this very forum. Is TFF still the best way to engage with the playerbase? If not, do you have any suggestions how it might be done better?
1. I'm not sure I would necessarily agree that it's a big responsibility, nor is there that much of a spotlight. However, as part of a team essentially going on holiday together, you want to ensure that everyone is going to get on and enjoy themselves. I think that is more likely to be the bar for exclusion if someone has a complete lack of positive personal attributes.
2. For the last few years we have tried to use a combination of TFF, FB, Tapatalk, Reddit, and now Discord as well. We advertise on whatever social media formats players use. We also make announcements at the larger events. But there will be players who are not on social media, nor go to the big events who will be unaware. I'm not sure whether there is much more to be done, or whether there needs to be. Good coaches will find themselves playing against other good coaches and will meet people from Team England eventually.
nazgob wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:14 am
How much of a priority are you going to place on community? I had a conversation with many coaches in Alicante who are very good, but actively did not want to be part of Team England due to a culture, real or percieved.
If a Team England coach were accused of serious misconduct prior to the event, e.g. racist remarks, how would you handle this? Would you expect to get involved?
What if this accusation were levelled at the event?
How are you going to make Team England accessible to all? As a Southerner, it often feels that because I can't get to certain tournaments, I can't get visibility. If I am being measured on competitiveness, do I have to get to the Uktc, the nafc or water bowl?
Pete, you wrote that:
My mandate was to unite the fractured English community and pick a competitive team with members from both the north and south of the country, and also to extend Team England to include the EurOpen team and fully involve them.
Ignoring the competetiveness, which you've already acknowledged was below our usual standard, how would you rate your success at unifying the fractured English community.
Speaking from personal experience, I can think of several English coaches with links to other countries (some quite tenuous), who have actively chosen to involve themselves in other nations, e.g. Scotland, Wales, Ireland (and in one case, a speculative non-european country). Why do you think this is, and is it a cause for concern?
The committee has worked hard for many years to wider involvement - this is not a new initiative. It's sad that some people have a perception of exclusion, but when members of the committee have tried to engage with them, they have closed the doors. My priority as captain is to pick the team to win EB 2024. that is the priority. However, as part of the committee, I share in the responsibilities of communication and widening community. The recent newsletter is a great example of the committee's work - not mine, I add!
Difficult to answer as it very much depends on what the event or behaviour was. However, I would not want to make any decision on my own, but instead would consult with the committee, and perhaps even with the EB organisers, depending on what it was. And if it happened at the event, then I would discuss with the team member involved and see if they had done something that needed to be apologised for. Hopefully that would be the end of it, but it would be the tournament organisers who would have the final say, I expect.
Team England is accessible to all who meet the requirements. There are no tournaments that people must get to, but to be able to prove competency, players will need to get to tournaments where they are playing top-level opponents. You get to the Welsh Open, which is a good tournament for that. You don't have to go to the NFC, UKTC or WB, but they are all worth making the extra effort to get to. Nottingham isn't really that far away from anywhere and is worth it to be playing with 280+ other people.
I think I was very successful at uniting the fractured community and had strong representation from both the North and the South. I would also add that I did this by choosing the best from both camps, not compromising on skill to force through a mandate. The team was stronger because of it.
There will always be coaches who play for other nations, for many reasons. The people that I know who have chosen to play for a different country to England have told me that for some it was to get a spot, as they didn't feel they could get on to England's team, others would prefer to represent a smaller nation and try to lift them up the ranks (nowhere to go for England but down!). No-one has ever told me that they thought it was a closed shop because they weren't friends with the right people - it was only due to their own perception of their playing ability. So no, I'm not worried.
glowworm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:31 am
Following the recent showing at Eurobowl would either of you consider moving to the “French model” of coach selection where the coach with the highest rating with a race over the previous years gets offered a slot? Surely that would stop the allegations and it has to be said appearance of an “old boys club”?
Good grief no. Do you know the pain and misery that the French go through each year?! And picking someone just on their ranking allows for the system to be gamed and abused. I'll say more about the old boys club later (short answer - doesn't exist).
Purplegoo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:18 am
Two questions related to these comments that we sometimes see re: 'picking mates', 'closed shop' or 'old boys club' (which, as someone who has been involved for a while, triggers me a wee bit. Not for this thread, but I would be delighted to pick up the 'perception' point in the AOB thread or at a tournament anon). Do you:
a) Think there is any genuine weight to any of this, or, more interestingly (perhaps)
b) Think that the time will come where we need to take a fundamental look at our aims when picking the team?
Re: b), you've both said that you anticipate turnover from the last team that was selected. This makes sense, because it's been a wee while since the last full selection cycle; coaches are going to drift out of the game for various reasons and others will join the community. 'Who is good' is going to change when the time axis is a few years. When it's (12) months, the best 8 in year X is going to be very close to the best 8 in year X+1 - 'boosting the perception that it's a closed shop' (although, I think I'm right in saying there has been at least one new cap at every EB?).
We've always tried to pick the best team to win the tournament; comprised of representative coaches who are ticking the most boxes of playing well. Should we keep doing that forever, or is there more value to the community in, at some stage, pursing one of the other selection criteria, over and above gaming skill?
/Unfair questions.
a) No, not for as long as I have been involved. As you say, there has been a new cap at every single Eurobowl. It has never been the same 8 guys. And yes, whilst there are some member of TE who have appeared a number of times, that is the same for every nation, and not a surprise. When you are trying to pick the best team, you will get the same people year on year some of the time.
b) I don't think so. The aim has to be to win Eurobowl, or there is no point playing. And so we should always aim to pick the best players. The interesting decision this year is finding out who those best players are, as we have a lot of new talent competing for spaces with the old guard. For me, the EB TE has to be the best 8 coaches. I would say that there is much more scope for taking a punt with EO players. The last EO team comprised 4 guys who had never been in TE before - that is great outreach - and a great opportunity for them to prove themselves. If I am captain for 2024, then I would again aim for the EB team to be the best, and the EO team to be as good as it can be, and a great opportunity to involve new players with Team England.
TheRake wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:12 pm
Have a 2 part question, the first part is primarily aimed at Pete but would be interested to hear Kare’s experience as he was in TE.
1. To what extent was last years Europen team integrated into planning and preparation with the Eurobowl team? Were they actively involved in the team chats and practice events or were there instances where they were kept separate? I understand there was more emphasis on inclusion with the Europen team compared to previous years so would be interesting to hear how this was executed and how effective it was.
2. Do you have any plans to further involve the Europen team in TE planning and what more can be done to help push perceptions from ‘A-Team and B-Team’ mindset more towards 2 branches of the same tree?
1. Completely. The EO team was completely integrated into TE and was in the same Whatsapp group, the same training session, the same hotel, the same shirts and dice etc. Their contributions were valid and accepted alongside the EB team's. There was no exclusion at any point, so I consider that to be a huge success.
2. I would involve them in just the same way that I did before. It cannot be improved! However, I would want to push back on the A/B-team thing. The 8 coaches on the EB team were the best 8, so there was an A-team and a B-team in some senses. I would not compromise the quality of the EB team to try to create a perception of parity. That said, it should be a joy and an honour to be part of TE, whether EB or EO. If I wasn't elected as captain, nor picked for the EB team, I would still be very proud to be part of the EO team. However, if the captain decided that (as a ex-EB player) the EOI team was going to be comprised of new-caps, that would be fine by me.