Who wants spp's for fouling???

[plasmoid]

Hi Sean,
for the record I don't think that the vote is close at all.
15 with the yes side, 24 for with the no.
Thats a pretty big difference, IMO.
Martin

[sean newboy]

5 of those 24 can shift if they see numbers to change their minds tho, currently im discounting the 2 middle votes. Those middle 2 categories represent people who arent comfortable with either yes/no possibility. Besides i expected a clear majority in the No category.

[christer]

In our local league, we've even made the penalty harsher.. If your player is caught fouling, not only does the player get ejected from the game, the team also loses the spot on the pitch..

So, if someone fouls in the first turn of the game and gets ejected, that team may only set up 10 players on the pitch (or less if more fouls are caught).. Makes fouling even more of a tactical thing...

It doesn't change what I think is a bad consequence of the fouling rules though - Towards the end of the game, if the winner is evident, there is no real penalty on fouling.. The coaches can foul once every turn, as the players will only be out until the next game... Can lead to teams degrading to a point where retirement is the only viable option...

-- Christer

[GenoNBBL]

We play with 2 SPP's for Casualties and the ejected on 4+ rule.

Why? Because it's Blood Bowl! You are playing a game of Fantasy Football where Elf's beat up Goblins and looney's run round the pitch with Chainsaw's for cripes sake! Look at the old 2nd edition literature, it's full of pictures with teams jumping up and down on others, and people being mangled in general.

If someone gets a crafty boot in then all credit to them!

One change I will make though (not told my league yet) is that you can only have a maximum of 1 DP on your team. This stops the DP team being built and builds just 1 specific character with the ability. This of course leads to other teams targetting said player so even more violence ensues!

Fouling *was* great when you earn't SPP's from it. But that's just my opinion.

[SixFootDwarf]

I have to side with the nay-sayers. True, Elves and their ilk outscore us left and right, but what we lack in speed we make up for in killing potential. Most (if not all) of the slower, bashy teams have wide access to strength skills, which means MB and Piling On coming out the wazoo. Instead of fouling your way to victory try just pummeling 'em with MB'ers. A team full of Tackling, Mighty Blow guys (i.e. Dwarves) will wreak havoc on any AV7 team. Longbeards already start with the necessary Block and Tackle.

Getting SPPs for fouls will only serve to degenerate the game more than it is already. With the new IGMEOY rules, guys are getting thrown off a LOT less. (I've fouled 5 turns in a row once and didn't get one call) Things are fine the way they are.

[McDeth]

How about if the player is sent off he misses the next match also, as in a red card????. Then if you get spp for any casualty which is a big positive, it's weighed by the negative of possibly being a man down next time.

[bug]

I go with GenoNBBL's position.

From an aesthetical perspective, players SHOULD get SPPs for fouling. This IS Blood Bowl!

[Ghost of Pariah]

Someone suggested SPP's if you get away with it...how about 2 SPP's only if you get caught? This means that each player is only gonna get 2 SPP's from fouling each game. This isn't really an incentive to me and it might give the guy something for his effort. The fans like violence; we all know that but think about it...if the player gets away with a foul how would the fans know he did anything? This could also justify the "Anti-violence Watch Dog Committee's Worst Tackle of the Year Award" fluff in the rule books. It, also, might stop coaches from calling the BBRC the "Anti-violence Watch Dog Committee"

[Bob-the-Fish]

I thought you always got the SPPs for fouls in the older versions(pre rules review). We've always played that way and after reading the new rules, my group decided they still will. With the new rules, its really hard to get away with enough fouls for it to unbalance the game if SPPs are awarded. With the IGMEOY rule, if and elf player wants to sit on the counter to stop the chaos teams from fouling thats fine. Its part of the strategy of the game. But not giving SPPs makes it hard for some types of players to get them. Chaos are a hitting team and don't usually score a lot of TDs. Chaos Dwarfs and Long Beards aren't going to get a lot of completions. At least with a foul you have a decent chance to get at least one injury or KO a troublesome opponent.
Without the SPPs it just "I'm gonna foul your star (insert player name here) because your winning." That doesn't promote a very freindly gaming enviorment for non-BB fanatics. At least with the SPPs you have a better excuse.
Lastly, it just seems to go against the "fluff" not to give SPPs. Aren't SPPs supposed to determine a players Spike! rating? With all the "Did You Knows" about ruthless players and bloodthirsty fans, wouldn't it seem logical to count dirty fouls as part of a player's rating?
Comments?

[neoliminal]

The problem with SPP's for fouling is that pretty soon the best player on your team is the DP. He simply racks up casualties much faster than other players can keep up. Score makers don't gain SPP's that fast, and neither do the pure blockers.

Once this is recognized, players start giving every player DP first... it's an easy road to getting more SPP's. Why would you NOT give a player DP, when it can lots of SPP's from it for the investment on a single skill?

[Bob-the-Fish]

My old skaven team had a linerat, Ikit Claw, with DP and RSC back when they could be used together. He had 12 casualties in 15 games, with at least 10 of them coming from fouls, probubly all 12 but it was quite a while ago and I can't remember. Because he would get kicked out quite early in the game, it limited his actual effect in the game. He only got one, maybe two fouls in before being ejected. That was when IGMEOY was anything but a double. I actually had a Rat Ogre that had more casualties(14) than him from blocking and Ikit was 6th on the team in SPPs. My GRs and throwers had more as did a stormvermin and both Rat Ogres(back when you could have 2) so he didn't overshadow scoring players. He played in all 15 games and one of the RO played in only 6 but still had more SPPs. My point is that he didn't totally dominate in SPPs and he was a very dedicated fouler. Plus my opponent could sit on the counter to limit him to one foul and an ejection if they really were scared of him. Or they could just wack him early and foul him just like any other player that my opponent thought was too dangerous to let scurry about.
I just think that SPPs for fouls are so in character with the whole Blood Bowl image of mayhem and carnage being rewarded as much as scoring that it would be a shame to stop awarding them.

[neoliminal]

Hey Bob-the-Fish!

Yeah, the only reason your dedicated fouler didn't ballon was IGMEOY. Imagine what would have happened if that wasn't in place, he surely would have been your top player.

[Bob-the-Fish]

It really depends on what you think the "top player" on team is. Ikit really could only foul, plus he had gaurd as a 3rd skill. I had a gutter runner that could score in one turn and another with AG 5, catch, and leap. My thrower had strong arm, accurate and hypno. gaze. I had 2 linerats with block and strip ball and one stormvermin had block, dodge and MB. The only thing Ikit could do was foul. He had no skills that aided in anything else except assisting in blocks. I always thought he was kind of a spice player to add flavor to my skaven team and my scoring and hitting players had more impact on the actual game. A dedicated fouler can only foul and you have to score TDs to win.
IGMEOY is still there, admitedly a little toned done, so foulers won't run rampant through a league. Plus Ikit couldn't get +4 on injury rolls so theoretically he would get away with more fouls but not as many of them would injure, meaning he'd get about the same amount of SPPs as he did before (I hate quoting odds cause they never seem to really matter, I've failed three 3+ dodge rolls and a reroll for each in row before and seen someone complete a long bomb on a 6 and catch it in 3 tackle zones)

[Ghost of Pariah]

No thoughts on the "only if he's cought" rule?
I think it would work really well. Tell me why it won't.

[Thetchyl]

The best suggestions I have read so far:
-2SPP only when he gets caught to represent the fame he gets, because his foul has been made public;

-1 SPP for all caualties from fouling might work well,too for I agree that violence is a major part of this game and should always be rewarded.

I voted for SPPs on fouls mainly because those spps hav brought forth legends of dirty playing in our league.Grælon"Hands of Gules", an ordinary dark elven lineman at first degenerted into a killing machine and has made his was to the top as a casualty making machine(18 casualties in 24 games). Without any SPPs, he would probably still only have dp for all the thorough violence!