Making Very Long Legs a strength skill?

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:45 am

voyagers_uk wrote:This and kicking IP out of the door are the best two things I have heard today

What is IP?

IONDragonX · Post by **IONDragonX** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:10 am

stashman wrote:
voyagers_uk wrote:This and kicking IP out of the door are the best two things I have heard today
What is IP?

Illegal Procedure. I use the variant rules where you gain a re-roll for calling an IP on an opponent.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:38 pm

stashman wrote:
voyagers_uk wrote:This and kicking IP out of the door are the best two things I have heard today
What is IP?

It's what I do on your head if you try and call me for not moving my turn marker.

JumpingElf · Post by **JumpingElf** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:00 am

A Dwarf Blitzer or a Undead Wight can pick it on a normal roll and intercept like Elves do?... and Elves can't get it? Everyone with strength access can make "Safe Throw" worthless?

Nearly every bashy team has a position player with AG 3, so IMO it will only boost these teams and would make the passing game for the Elves disproportional harder. I'm not sure this is the right way to handle it ...

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:19 am

JumpingElf wrote:A Dwarf Blitzer or a Undead Wight can pick it on a normal roll and intercept like Elves do?... and Elves can't get it? Everyone with strength access can make "Safe Throw" worthless? Nearly every bashy team has a position player with AG 3, so IMO it will only boost these teams and would make the passing game for the Elves disproportional harder. I'm not sure this is the right way to handle it ...

On the other hand, the elves will have a good skill to spend their doubles on - I think that will make up for it.

JumpingElf · Post by **JumpingElf** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:44 am

prisma wrote: On the other hand, the elves will have a good skill to spend their doubles on - I think that will make up for it.

But the main thing is: Elves, High Elves, Woodelves mostly and the Dark Elves sometimes have to play a Passing Game to win. If the other Teams beat them up and have a better chance to intercept their passes, what will left to win their games .... only their speed for a running game. IMO this skill will change the whole Elf-Playstyle. It's not an arguement they spend their doubles for this skill to get it, when you play against a dwarf team for example. Their Blitzers can intercept your passes much better (like every other of your team), but in most cases you'll never get an chance to intercept a pass, 'cause in most cases a dwarf team won't play a pass.

... and Undead, Chaos, Vampire, Necros, Norse, Nurgle too. Maybe you can check out for Chaos Dwarves or Ogres

, 'cause they can interept like normal Human or Ork Lineman and make "Sure Pass" useless. Very nice!

zephard · Post by **zephard** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:54 am

On this one I am agreeing with JumpingElf. I have yet to see a team I play against pass. Everyone cages up and just moves the ball, even those AG-like teams. The pass game is almost an elf exlusive game, and half the Wood Elf teams I have played against, plays a running game rather than a passing one.

Bonehead · Post by **Bonehead** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:53 pm

An Elf with catch is still better at intercepting than an AG 3 player with long/strong legs.
In our league it is an elvish tactic to run through the defence of the opponent and bring let's say the Dwarf runner who just picked up the ball in some distress. This often forces him to pass the ball and gives the Elves the chance to intercept (works best with pass block). Maybe it is an all-or-nothing tactic but you can force bashy teams to pass the ball.
Why not grant bashy teams a skill so they can intercept as good as Elves without a skill can? Elves can get block on a normal roll and block as good as many other bashies but noone complains about that. Ok, blocking is more than just this one skill but still...
Canceling safe throw is very good indeed, but I think strong legs would not be your first skill choice in a bashy team. And if you have two or three with this skill in later development it should be ok to have something of an aswer to safe throw and even when you get the chance or possibility to intercept the ball you still have to roll a 5-6 in most cases. Good but not too good imo.
What would interest me is how many interceptions the bashy teams (or all teams in general) of your leagues have made. In our league it rarely happens and I would like to see interceptions more often.
And not only the bashy teams would benefit from this skill as Elves are more likely to make use of the +1 to leap.

JumpingElf · Post by **JumpingElf** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:03 pm

Bonehead wrote:An Elf with catch is still better at intercepting than an AG 3 player with long/strong legs.

But long/strong leg cancel "Safe Throw" + give a mod. of +1 to interceptions and "Catch" gives "only" a Reroll. The Reroll don't cancel out a skill and it's not important if you have only "Catch", 'cause you won't catch a Safe Throw with this skill.

Bonehead wrote:In our league it is an elvish tactic to run through the defence of the opponent and bring let's say the Dwarf runner who just picked up the ball in some distress. This often forces him to pass the ball and gives the Elves the chance to intercept (works best with pass block). Maybe it is an all-or-nothing tactic but you can force bashy teams to pass the ball.

In most cases the most coaches will protect their Runner very early, so this is a all-or-nothing-tactic for very few situations.

Bonehead wrote:Why not grant bashy teams a skill so they can intercept as good as Elves without a skill can?

Because IMO it should based on agility and not on strength.

Bonehead wrote:Canceling safe throw is very good indeed, but I think strong legs would not be your first skill choice in a bashy team. And if you have two or three with this skill in later development it should be ok to have something of an aswer to safe throw and even when you get the chance or possibility to intercept the ball you still have to roll a 5-6 in most cases. Good but not too good imo. What would interest me is how many interceptions the bashy teams (or all teams in general) of your leagues have made. In our league it rarely happens and I would like to see interceptions more often.

Canceling out "Safe Throw" is a good point. But IMO you can cancel out "Safe Throw" with the goold old 2nd Ed. Skill "Distract". Make this a General Skill and most of the teams can cancel out "Safe Throw". Maybe you can use it on "Nerves of Steel", too?

Bonehead wrote:And not only the bashy teams would benefit from this skill as Elves are more likely to make use of the +1 to leap.

The Skill "Jump" don't have to be pushed, it's good enough.

Bonehead · Post by **Bonehead** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:29 pm

Of course the bashy teams would benefit most from this skill but all in all they only get a tad better at intercepting and not too good and it still "wastes" a skill.
For Elves it is useful but they'll need a double.
And keep in mind that for safe throw to work you need an AG roll. No problem for most Elves but there is still the chance of failure.

What is distract? Never played 2nd ed.

Would it be more acceptable for you if the skill would give a reroll for leaping instead of the +1? Don't know the odds here and what would actually be better.

JumpingElf · Post by **JumpingElf** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:43 pm

They used "Distract" in the 2nd Ed. as a negative modification on passing rolls.

A player uses the skill "Distract" to confuse the thrower/catcher that it's not easy for him to throw/catch (he has to be in the thrower/catchers tackle zone for sure!).

So it can be used to cancel out "Safe Throw" and "Nerves of Steel".

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:52 am

Brilliant idea. I saw it on the specialist games site and had to comment.

Anyone who thinks this is a bad thing for elves should consider that now doubles rolls can be backed up with leap to make an EXTREMELY annoying and effective player, especially if the player happens to be a positional who starts with dodge (Witch Elf.) A reduction in the passing game in exchange for even more mobility is a change I would accept with my Dark Elves.

Also, the ability for blitzers to become good interceptors (Pass Block + VLL) would be an improvement, not necessarily so much guard around, but a lot more options.

(I also like Darkson's idea of returning a mutation to the game which gave +1MA, but added a negatrait.)

Galak, if you think you can get away with it, I would love this suggestion to be made to the BBRC. (For whatever that's worth

)

Spaceman_Spiff · Post by **Spaceman_Spiff** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:15 am

In general, i like the idea. Any team should be able to have a shot at being able to cancel out safe throw. However off the top of my head i can think of a few issues. well. 2 distinctly, and one really scares me.
first, wardancers getting that precious 2+ leap that much easier,
and second, pro elf catcher, VLL and passblock........that scares me so much...4+ rerollable intercept regardless that you can move in range of....

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:56 am

Why not have two skills

1) Powerful legs: +1 Leap, Intercept, & landing rolls

2) VLL: cancel Safe throw, failed dodge rolls end player turn but not team turn.

That way...
ST guys can gain some intercept & a bit o leap.
Stunties get some thing out of it.
Mutants can get some versatility.
Safe throw stays pretty tough.

With this style of VLL all mutants can benefit without getting too out of ballance. AG mutants would want it for the Safe throw and the dodge and With Powerful legs, ST mutants would want it for both reasons as well.