Tactics of the tundra, norse in leagues.

[inkpwn]

I was intrested in playing norse next season (tabletop) but I have little idea of how to plan this out, my legendary edition team (bodyslam express) has had a decent development so I kinda have a rough idea.
I find the berserkers are hard to level up at first because I primarly used them for crowd surfing but after they get piling on its hard to stop them leveling . I'm never sure what's going to benifit my lineman at first (well apart from kick) and my team became fairly uniform. No one was really specialised.
But what's everyone elses experiance and has anyone got a good guide?

[mattgslater]

How many games? That's the real question.

My personal favorite Norse roster in a scheduled league with all rookie teams is:
10x Lineman
1x Ulfwere
4x TRR
150k bank

If you're playing a perpetual format, especially if you'll see a lot of developed teams, I'd spend that 150k upgrading to a few more positionals, and maybe I'd drop the fourth TRR.

6x Linemen
1x Ulfwere
2x Berserker
2x Runner
3x TRR
1x Apothecary

It's also fun (but risky) to just go for full ST:
8x Lineman
2x Ulfwere
1x Yhetee
4x TRR or 3x and an Apoth, with 10k in bank

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Carnis wrote a really good playbook - http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/LRB6Playbooks.htm

[Smeborg]

inkpwn - I like your poster.

Norse are a lot of fun for both coaches. They do not play in a "normal" way (if there is such a thing) and take a little time to learn. They both take and dish out CAS. Once in a while they will get mashed.

As Carnis says in his guide, there is no generally agreed starting roster for Norse - I don't think I have seen 2 the same in our league. They are a somewhat expensive team (bear in mind they need lots of players in their final roster because of AV7). They have more positional players available to them than they can reasonably use, so you may need to think of a trimmed final roster (less than all 9 positionals) and work back from there.

Norse often have to make the call whether to play for numbers (their preferred style) or to concentrate on the ball. This call can come at any point in a game or drive. It is not always easy to make the right decision. They can develop a viable passing game, but this does not appeal to most coaches, being "un-Norse".

A LoS defense with 3 Norse Linemen with Block/Fend may not sound like much, but it can be very annoying to play against.

[Smeborg]

inkpwn - Carnis recommends specialist development, whereas you seem to have preferred generalists. His playbook will likely give you food for thought. I suggest you need to ponder role definition for each player type.

[Overhamsteren]

Played 7 games in a league with norse, team here: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=654907

Score:

vs ST4: 0-2-1
vs dwarf: 0-1-0
vs elf-amazon 3-0-0

My blackbox team is 5-0-0 vs no S4 teams.

It's a small sample size but I have concluded that you should focus on battling ST4 teams and other bashers early on.

How to? I don't know exactly. One thing I found useful against ST4 was running the ball with a lineman and using the runners' dauntless to help bash.

But maybe you wont even start with runners if you focus on ST4?

Problem with wolves, I think they need block first, with frenzy it's just too unreliable not to. And block protects their expensive AV8 asses. But the team needs guard so bad so guard for 2nd skill but without mighty blow how will they ever get to 31ssp. Maybe they are 'complete' with block&guard, I've found that with black orcs at least.

You don't need tackle against ST4 teams, so postpone that maybe, with frenzy and a reroll you can get 6 dice on the ball after all?

Getting extra linemen and some dirty players sounds good. But what about taking a couple of dauntless also early on?

Taking blitzers and getting guard first skill? Dunno they are so squishy and expensive, but guard always helps in a scrum of course. Also having at least 1 blitzer for the 4d blitz with block is very nice.

I guess I should try Matts setup next time;

8x Lineman
2x Ulfwere
1x Yhetee
3x and an Apoth, with 10k in bank

With the norse early block reliability and 3 RR taking the risky choices shouldn't be that bad.

[mattgslater]

How many games? Norse peak out at a high base cost and are easy to hate on with inducements, so success sometimes breeds crashes. What's the format like? Norse hate giving up Wizards more than any team save Amazons and Khemri, and do really well with Wizards of their own against bash teams. Almost elf-like, in fact, because winning a turn is huge on an AV7 team with tons of Frenzy. Oh, and the same goes for saws: Norse hate saws more than anybody, and Helmut is deadly on a Norse team.

[Smeborg]

I have concluded that you should focus on battling ST4 teams and other bashers early on.

How to? I don't know exactly. One thing I found useful against ST4 was running the ball with a lineman and using the runners' dauntless to help bash.

I agree that starting Norse can struggle against ST teams (ditto in tournaments). The Runners seem very handy against ST4 opponents. I recently went with the following starting roster for maximum effectiveness against ST teams:

The SnoT
2 x Ulfs
2 x Runners
2 x Throwers
4 x Linos
2 x RRs

Starting without Berserkers may be considered heretical by some, but it seems to work fine. The Runners are better against ST than the Berserkers. I also want to skill up the SnoT and Ulfs - not easy, so the earlier you take them, the better. The above roster also allows decent ball movement from the start (though lacking Sure Hands and a 3rd RR, of course).

I am considering going Dodge, Jump Up on the Runners, to make them into wide-ranging utility players. Having 4 players with J-Up was a pleasant feature of the earlier Norse roster. Block/Dodge/D-Less/J-Up is a rather good combo from prone. You can either move your full MA, or whack anything that's standing next to you, without needing support.

There are so many options for Runner development, it's hard to know which one to pick. They are conflicted players, being good at both ball movement and blocking.

[Overhamsteren]

That's a nice starter although I would probably drop the throwers and keep 40k for an apo in game 2 seeing as losing a big dude would be catastrophical.

But getting a thrower with sure hands later would be nice to run the ball against teams where the runners will mainly bash.

Do everyone agree to go guard on doubles and dodge for S access players and players already with guard? I guess blodging up is always a strong option.

[Smeborg]

Overhamsteren - I decided to experiment with the Throwers because I have decided not to run the ball with the Runners. The Runners still make good Receivers when needed. Having Throwers makes the team expensive, but I have observed that even the heaviest Norse teams have to resort to throwing the ball at times. Those with Throwers seem to pose more threats.

I suspect the doubles strategy you describe would be close to universal. Throwers might take Strong Arm, though, depending what skills they have already... For example, if I had a Thrower with some or all of S-Hands, K-Ret, Accurate, I might give him S-Arm, but I might give a rookie Thrower Guard.

[mattgslater]

I run the ball with a Lineman, usually.

[narg]

Overhamsteren - I decided to experiment with the Throwers because I have decided not to run the ball with the Runners. The Runners still make good Receivers when needed. Having Throwers makes the team expensive, but I have observed that even the heaviest Norse teams have to resort to throwing the ball at times. Those with Throwers seem to pose more threats.

One thrower is good but I don't think you get mileage out of the second one. I tried two throwers in my norse team for a while but I've never been impressed - I don't think the second thrower ever made a pass so I fired him after eight games or something like that. The issue is that when things really go bad you tend not to have the thrower in the right position and you end up throwing the ball with a random lineman.

[Smeborg]

I was thinking of developing one Thrower as a genuine Thrower, and giving t'other Leader, Kick, leaving all Linos for potential LoS duty.

[narg]

I was thinking of developing one Thrower as a genuine Thrower, and giving t'other Leader, Kick, leaving all Linos for potential LoS duty.

I think that Leader is a waste in a normal league although it may be ok in tournaments and match-making leagues such as Cyanide or FUMBBL's Black Box. A thrower with leader costs 90k, while a lineman with a team reroll costs 110k, so unless you think that these 20k are really crucial there isn't really a point in doing that IMHO.

[mattgslater]

I could see getting a Thrower just so you know who to make into your SH/KOR target, but those are both G skills, so you're really paying 20k for Pass only until you hit 31 SPP. The only way I'd consider a second one is if I had a highly efficient team and wanted to replace a benchwarmer with a gadget player, like a retriever-carrier combo (like if one guy gets SH, then stats or doubles, you might get a second one and give him KOR, or just give KOR to a Lino). But Norse aren't so good you can think about building that way out the gate like you can with Orcs; let it happen if it happens.

Runners are good against bash at all points. I say Dodge, then SS, then Fend. Berserkers are good against agility at all points: Frenzy/Block is deadly vs. light teams early, and the ability to run out and buy POMB lets them ramp up on skills like Tackle and SF without hogging. Dodge is great on doubles, with SS as a #2 double. You may need to run just one POMBer, giving the other one Guard and SF, just so you have enough Guard. Warning, this guy will die. All the human positions are fragile, and you have to be ready to succeed with or without them. This is easier with Runners than Blitzers.

One thing you'll notice is that you can't take enough Guard. Like, it's not really ever on the menu unless you roll doubles; sometimes you find yourself cringing as you take it on an Ulf/Zerk/ST, because you just know he's gonna get run out of position, then beaten to oblivion. It's almost like being an elf team that can't dodge: you need those doubles on linemen. So I recommend not giving into the temptation to start as many positionals as possible. You want those early scores going to guys who, when they double, you can confidently give them Guard and be done with it. And when they don't double, you can get yourself a Dirty Player and some Fend, and maybe not have to play man-down all the time.

11x Lineman
1x Runner/Berserker/Ulf
3x TRR
160k-180k bank (induce a Wizard)

9x Lineman
2x Ulfwere
3x TRR
150k bank

8x Lineman
1x Runner
2x Ulfwere
1x Apoth (don't be afraid to use on a KO)
4x TRR