The new Elf team

[wesleytj]

now, I have 12k points of dark elves (about10 painted)

I hope you mean 10k painted, and not 10 models

i thought that was assumed...yes 10k painted.

[wesleytj]

Now for a mini rant on Dark Elves: Why make a high agility team, then try to bend them into a hitting team? Why have an Evil tax? Why cripple the team with no strength skill's? If they are suposed to be a hitting team (and have no one with str over 3), they need strength skills. :end of my biased an opinionated rant on the poor design of the Dark Elves.

dark elves are a very competitive team, you can really make them work. they took a hit with the change to the frenzy skill, but having 4 blitzers makes up for it.

i've actually never lost to high elves with dark elves...in several games. i honestly think dark elves are the superior team. they don't need st skills, apart from a few liners with guard and some mighty blow on the witches and blitzers.

[Darkson]

now, I have 12k points of dark elves (about10 painted)

I hope you mean 10k painted, and not 10 models

i thought that was assumed...yes 10k painted.

No, can't be assumed. I have around 6k of Space Marines and 1 is painted, and by 1 I mean 1 model

[Ghost of Pariah]

2nd edition humans look much better than the 3rd editions! (except for the 2nd edition plastics) The 3rd edition metal humans are crap. They look like crack heads or something.

As for the dark elfs and the high elfs. The dark elfs look pretty much the same as now, thought cept for Tuern Redvenom, who is is bad ass.

Not sure what you mean about the other elves? Rancid? Why because they have mohawks? I'll take elfs with mohawks and studded leather anyday over conehead helmets and feathers. Maybe that's just personal tastes. Never really liked the 2nd edition dwarfs. They didn't seem like they were wearing metal armor and that just bugged me.
OKay the 3rd edition orcs are better...except I use 2nd edition blockers for my linemen. Although, I have to say that the upsizing of orcs is one thing that pit me off early in my GW career. The current goblins are the same size as the old orcs! That's dumb!

[Snew]

That's why I asked the question about the scale of the new Elves.

[Anthony_TBBF]

I think you'll like the new Elfs then, they are more in the vein of the 2nd Ed. range. The poses are very cool at least, and they look kinda mean (for a bunch of tree hugging fairies).

[DoubleSkulls]

That's why I asked the question about the scale of the new Elves.

I'm pretty sure they are the same size as the current 3rd ed range.

BTW I think I used the term "cyber punk" but JJ said "Cyber fantasy". Don't get hung up on a phrase - the new minis are

Its official that JJ wants BB to move away from the WFB world - no more minis looking like they just walked off the battlefield.

[Indigo]

As far as I understood it, JJ said that the new elves were not going to replace the current high elves, and would use the same rules with catcher/thrower replacing the likes of dragon warrior etc. There is no need for another elf team, and I think JJ and AH recognise this, but there IS a need for new elf models. I think we need more human models too, more along the lines of 2nd edition.

As for all this cyber- bollocks, looking at the figs and the context JJ mentioned it, it doesn't seem to be cyber-whatever in the classic sense, but more along the lines of stylised armour rather than actual battlefield kit.

[phil]

and the humans look just like the 3rd ed metal ones.

buy this man some glasses, please...

[martynq]

As for the Dark Elves, they have 4 blitzers - there's your hitting power. They tread the line between low(er) speed and high agility and as such are a unique team and deserve to be played as such. I don't think the others need work at all; Dark Elves play a very different style of game to High Elves if you play either of them properly.

Erm, I guess I don't play either properly. I lose with dark elves a bit more often than half time time, and with high elves perhaps a little less. My dark elf thrower usually loses the ball before he can throw it due to all his colleagues getting stuck in tackle zones

Overall, I'd say that dark elves don't have a specialized catcher or an obvious shadower. You end up converting blitzers into those roles. The lower movement seems to be a problem.

If it weren't for the fact that witch elves start with cool skills, I would say that high elves are better than dark elves (though the AV7 on the lion warrior is often annoying).

Martyn

[Norse]

In my opinion the scale of the new elves is a bit more lithe than the present ones...

The new Ogres are HUGE but very good!!

I have 5 now...

[lawquoter]

Well I'm interested in seeing these new elves. I think anything has to be better than the goofy looking coneheads that exist now.

[wesleytj]

2nd edition humans look much better than the 3rd editions! (except for the 2nd edition plastics) The 3rd edition metal humans are crap. They look like crack heads or something.

ok, i believe you...it's been a long time since i saw the 2nd ed ones, and i never owned either. just going off of old memory, which apparently is wrong.

As for the dark elfs and the high elfs. The dark elfs look pretty much the same as now, thought cept for Tuern Redvenom, who is is bad ass.

This, on the other hand, I know something about. The dark elves are TOTALLY different between 2nd and 3rd ed. I love the 3rd ed dark elves, those minis were the reason i started playing bb...they were my first team. the 2nd ed ones are so gay looking with thier big helmet "sticky-up things" ( i don't even know what they're supposed to be) and lame ass poses. The new dark elves have blitzers that look mean, witch elves with blades in their gloves, and thrower with a spiky bracelet thing, they look really mean and nasty. Even the line elves look better!

Not sure what you mean about the other elves? Rancid? Why because they have mohawks? I'll take elfs with mohawks and studded leather anyday over conehead helmets and feathers.

to me leather clothes and mohawks pretty much defines the punk look, yes. i dont want punk elves.

and none of my elves have feathers thank you very much. it's not my fault you play with pansy-ass high elves. the only feathered elf i have is jordell, and i never field him, and his feather isn't on his head so it's no big deal anyway.

as for the helmets, sure they look a little cone-headed. but that's an elfy style...form fitting and functional...I think they're ok. certainly not enough of a downside to make the like the 2nd ed shite.

Maybe that's just personal tastes. Never really liked the 2nd edition dwarfs. They didn't seem like they were wearing metal armor and that just bugged me. .

again, i'll have to take your word for it...i dont remember them that well. and i have no problem with metal armor...the dark elves wear chain shirts too, no rules against that in bb that i know of.

OKay the 3rd edition orcs are better...except I use 2nd edition blockers for my linemen. Although, I have to say that the upsizing of orcs is one thing that pit me off early in my GW career. The current goblins are the same size as the old orcs! That's dumb!

you actually field line orcs?

well the whole scale got a bit bigger all across the board, which is another reason i like them...more room for good details, and a lot scarier looking. it's not dumb, it's an improvement.

[phil]

well the whole scale got a bit bigger all across the board, which is another reason i like them...more room for good details, and a lot scarier looking. it's not dumb, it's an improvement.

this is absolutely not true... bigger models are no more capable of detail work than smaller ones.... sculptors are are more and less capable of detail work. i've seen 10mm pieces with more personality, detail, and life than some of the 25mm figs out there, it's the art, it isn't the size... the sculptor has to have the talent and vision to use the area he has, giving bad sculptors (or sculptors who just cover every free space with skulls and rivets) more room is just an invitation for boringly unneccessary embellishments...

[wesleytj]

Erm, I guess I don't play either properly. I lose with dark elves a bit more often than half time time, and with high elves perhaps a little less. My dark elf thrower usually loses the ball before he can throw it due to all his colleagues getting stuck in tackle zones

Overall, I'd say that dark elves don't have a specialized catcher or an obvious shadower. You end up converting blitzers into those roles. The lower movement seems to be a problem.

ah, but if there are no specialized catchers, and you have a team full of ag4 guys, that can actually be a major advantage if you play it right. I never give catch to any of my dark elves for that very reason. the opponent has to defend them all equally. plus if you're playing a run-style game speed isn't really that important.

yes, blitzers end up being my higher scorers, but i don't give them skill commensurate with that...they just do it anyway by being ma7 elves. they get skills like dodge, tackle, stripball, pro, (dless and mb on doubles), which strangely enough is exactly what i'd give them if they weren't the main scorers on the team too.

as for shadowers, your league must use them a lot more than ours. it's not a skill you see around here much. i give it to wardancers sometimes...and i'm one of the few ppl who use it at all.

the other thing is you're talking about your thrower not being able to throw because nobody is open...well if you play the running style they're always open, because you throw it to them the same turn you pick it up.

If it weren't for the fact that witch elves start with cool skills, I would say that high elves are better than dark elves (though the AV7 on the lion warrior is often annoying).

Martyn

ah, but witch elves are good, and that's why the teams are more or less balanced. and she has av7 just the same as the lions...and she is a hitter type without block meaning she gets herself into trouble more then the lions would. a witch elf without block is a very delicate thing...that's why i never buy one on a starting team. you want to have a bench for when (not if, when) she gets ko'd or worse, and you want to have an apoth there in case it's a LOT worse.