The LRB handicap table just isn't going to work

[BlanchPrez]

Ok, that's a ridiculously terrible rule. Example:A chaos team has lost 4 games but has 14 blood thirsty players. The Skaven come off a rough week of games and have seven players for their next game and you're saying that the chaos coach can just challenge the Skaven team and then win 2-0 when the challenge is refused?

Yup, that's pretty much what that rules says.

The whole idea of the open league format is that coaches play who they want to play, when they want to until a tournament starts. They have a rough game, they get with another player around the same rank and duke it out. The two dead hard teams in the league eventually can't find as many willing coaches and then go head to head and one usually gets knocked down a few pegs.

Okay, obviously we have two different definations of Open League Format. My mistake, I misunderstood what you were refering to. See, by my thinking, you're not playing unless you're involved in some kind of tourniment, and the Open Leageu Format is what is described in the LRB as the playoffs to determine who get's into the semi-finals. Apparenty, you're league uses it as games played between major tournies. Cool, I'll change my way of thinking for this thread then.

Given this, I think what you might try is to divide your league up into parts, with TR being the deciding factor. As a coach, you are only allowed to challange people within your part/division/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. That way, newbies to the league and experienced coaches that are starting new teams are place where those monster teams can't smash their new team.

Chris

[Milo]

I posted a revised Handicap Table on the New Concepts forum a couple of weeks ago. Our league has been using it for the first 90 games or so. You can check out the results by viewing our league statistics page at http://www.chubbleague.com/chubb/default.asp?p=stat.

There's a distinct trend showing the declining chances for Handicap to alter the results of the game in favor of the underdog. I think we'd all agree that Handicap should offer the underdog some chance of winning or tieing against a team with a higher TR, but not a dramatic one. Feedback from my coaches has been good, and I would qualify the new tables as a definite success so far.

Check out the tables at: http://www.chubbleague.com/chubb/handicap.html

[Pitch Dark]

Looks very nice to me.

[Pitch Dark]

Sadly my league is a little conservative, dont think i can persuade them to use this unless it becomes official. Any chance of that?

[Milo]

There will likely be some sort of changes to the Handicap table at the next Rules Review. This is one proposal on the table to the BBRC, but there are others, so no guarantees this will be official.

It's working quite well in my league, though.

Milo

[Skummy]

I had an interesting game last night in which my TR 230 Human team took on a 120 Norse. The handicaps he rolled were Micky Finn (loss of apoth) Morely's Revenge, It Wasn't Me, Bribe the Ref, and he picked Virus. As a result, I had 4 players essentially missing the game, and was ground down by a fouling dirty player who didn't have to worry about being caught. The game ended on a dice off, and I lost 2-2. Based on this and other experiences I've had with the LRB Handicap table, I'd say that it is extremely variable and can range from dramatically effecting the game to providing a minor inconvenience to the favored team. I do like Milo's solution a good deal, as it will make the handicap system better for all involved.

[Kolja_TBBF]

At the TBBF we toughened up the table a bit. See http://www.tbbf.org/houserules.asp and scroll down to the handicap table.

We found the regular table to be too weak (especially some of the more useless results) and so we tried to even it out a bit. We find it is working a lot better now. Our intention was to have a table that helps the underdog have a fighting chance (or at least some chance) but not to have permanent effects that accelerate team growth.

[Pitch Dark]

I also had an interesting game last night. My 109TR Chaos met a 219TR Skaven.
I got Mickey Finn, but he had no coaches. (apoth. isnt coaching staff, is it now? Atleast its not listed under the heading "coaching staff").
I got Bribe the ref, but I had only 11 players anyway.
I got Palmed Coin, but I wanted to kick to him anyway, and so did he.
I got Bribe the ref(2), I did have use of that free faul.
And last but not least, i choose In the bag, wich made all the diffrence, and I won by 2-1.

All this said, i got 3 more or less meaningless results for me, but then one single result turned the tide in my favour. I do think hower that the handicap table would benefit from beeing somewhat more balanced, where every result counts, but no single one result should be too good.

I really like the tables by milo, where you can choose for yourself what kind of handicaps you would benefit from, and "pay" for it. Also, this way it really matters if theres a 150+ diffrence or a 250+ diffrence in teamrating.

[Zombie]

The apoth is part of the coaching staff, and the wizard is as well.

[Pitch Dark]

If you say they are, i guess they are, but they are not listed under the heading "coaching staff".

Another question, how do you resolve the results of the handicaptable? In the order they come? Lets say i first get in the bag, and he's only allowed to play with the 11 worst players, then i get virus, and he looses 2 of them. Will he have to set up 9 players, or can he take 2 from those that where too good before?

And while were at it, what if, when youve got in the bag, you knock somebody out. He scores, wich means in the bag still stands, and he dont get the knocked player to play. Will he have to set up with 10 players, or can he take one of the players that previously was to good?

[DoubleSkulls]

We play that you can field 11 players - its just the worst 11 available at the start of the drive.

[Zombie]

He's right, it's the 11 worst AVAILABLE players.