Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun May 11, 2003 5:02 am

Even on 4+, the chance of being ejected is still only 41.67%. And even when that happens, he only loses a hobgoblin, so no big deal.

Fouling is a lot more powerful than some of you guys make it out to be. Try fouling on 4+ sometimes. You'll see that it still works very well.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun May 11, 2003 5:11 am

Zombie wrote:Even on 4+, the chance of being ejected is still only 41.67%. And even when that happens, he only loses a hobgoblin, so no big deal.

Not when he's using CD's, hohgobs and trolls to foul, as he said.

And don't have a go at me, Zombie, I would like SPP's for fouling, I was just saying if this guys built his team around fouling, don't foul back, then you're not relying on lucky 6's for SO's.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun May 11, 2003 6:25 am

Darkson wrote:And don't have a go at me, Zombie, I would like SPP's for fouling

And i wouldn't.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun May 11, 2003 6:46 am

Fine, OK, I mis-remembered what you said in posts pages and weeks ago, but please check what the poster said that I replied to.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun May 11, 2003 7:34 am

I'm guilty of the same crime as you. I read it a day prior to yours. By the time i read yours, i had forgotten about his, and was reading your post out of context.

Talafar · Post by **Talafar** » Sun May 11, 2003 11:51 am

I only fouled once in the first game, a tactical foul to try and deal with his piling on troll.
Second game I didnt foul at all...

Oni · Post by **Oni** » Mon May 12, 2003 3:00 pm

Zombie in the 3rd Ed games with IGMEOY did both players foul? Seems to me not fouling back and not using rerolls to make sure of the foul goes a long ways to making sure the DP is not effective like in 3rd Ed.

Personally I think SPPs should be awarded. I also think the IGMEOY rule was needed to stop foul fests unless both players are fouling.

Oni

littlemute · Post by **littlemute** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:27 pm

We're being a bit hasty with judging the new rules, it took a few years to realized that DP and fouling were overpowered, so let's give the LRB a good run before messing with it..

I think crowd casualties should give SSP's as they're going to be very rare with frenzy both a trait and nerfed, but let's see how this year goes.

As for fouling it's not right that a fouling DP player has more SSP's than the lead scorer on the team! As DP is a general skill, arguably the BEST general skill other than block, players shouldn't be SSP-encouraged to get casualties from fouling, but they should get something.

It's frustrating when a real casualty causing player like a stormvermin with fangs, claw, tackle is fully outstripped in league casualties by a bunch of hobgoblins/halflings with DP, but I'm ok with that (look at Hopoate! the greatest fouler in human history) but when you mark CAS in someone's profile I say that means 2 points according to the KISS ideal.

There's just no simple solution. On the one hand, foulers are characterful players that people love and adore. On the other, beardy coaches will make every lineman's first skill Dirty Player and cause terrible problems for the amount of SSP's spent on skills.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:39 pm

wesleytj wrote:(sorry this was going to come sooner but tbb was down on friday)

3 main reasons:

1. Balance: Many teams have issues on getting those first few skills on low agility players. Black orcs and zombies pop instantly to mind. Can't pass, can't run, can't score, in general they can't do anything speed/agility related to get spps. They can't hit very well either, since they have no block or mightyblow or anything else to give them casualties reliably. So they foul. But now that doesn't work either. Other teams have no such players, and therefore have an advantage. line elves, line rats, and so on will always get their spps. Besides, what else is a slow team supposed to do at the end of the half/game when they only have one turn?

2. Overkill: We've already done enough in new lrb rules to contain abusive fouling. We have a good and workable IGMEOY. We have limited DP to be + to arm or inj only instead of both. We have given defensive assists for fouls to help the av of the poor lad who's down. Isn't that enough? Do we really need to have this as well? Is it really necessary to take away a very good source of spp's from players that need them so badly?

3. KISS: For those that don't know, it means "Keep it simple stupid" Causing a casualty on a member of the opposing team should give you 2 spp. Making needless exceptions only complicates the rules for no good reason, especially for people who have bb experience and are accustomed to playing the old way. Now I know that's not a reason to NOT fix a rule that IS screwed up, but I think it IS a good reason to leave alone something that isn't or wasn't.

your turn.

The man is 100% right.

I would also go expand IGMEOY to +1 per foul.
First Foul you are sent of on a 1+ second Foul 2+, third foul 3+ and so on.
This is represented by a D6. The D6 is acting as your foul risk indicator. Every team has one "Referee Dice". When you foul, the opposing teams coach is allowed to increase the score of your "Foul/referee Dice" by one.
A foul by the opposing team resets your Dice to 1.

And make Mighty Blow +1 to armour & injury and OF course add mighty blow to fouling. This is very useful because it tempts good blockers to foul, and they're sent off while the victim returns to play after beeing stunned. You can watch this in in the real world as well. Provocations & Diving.

3rd Edition was a mess for agility teams cuz they were slaughtered, now, i cant see the fun in playing a brutal team anymore. I think a Chaos team should be something you have to be very, very afraid of.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:56 pm

coaches are still very afraid of chaos, orc, norse, dwarf and undead teams

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:04 pm

in case of mighty blow, its good for the weak team.

by fouling with his MB players, chances are, they get sent off and cause less CAS by blocking.

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:22 pm

Toby wrote: I would also go expand IGMEOY to +1 per foul.
First Foul you are sent of on a 1+ second Foul 2+, third foul 3+ and so on.
This is represented by a D6. The D6 is acting as your foul risk indicator. Every team has one "Referee Dice". When you foul, the opposing teams coach is allowed to increase the score of your "Foul/referee Dice" by one.
A foul by the opposing team resets your Dice to 1.

I really see no need whatsoever for SPPs on fouls - I think things are just fine without thanks - but Toby has just come up with something I like. The "Foul dice" concept is a nice one. I'd work it so that each opposing foul reduced your dice by one instead of resetting it though.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon May 12, 2003 6:54 pm

you are right Thandrin.

I was thinking off beeing sent of @ 1, of coures it's 6, so you are right, it has to start @6, counting down.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Mon May 12, 2003 7:54 pm

Toby wrote:The man is 100% right.

No, Toby, he isn't and neither are you.
Toby, I wonder:
How often did you play BB?
And how old are you?
Just curious.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:16 pm

Pushed into crowd = normal block + goto reserve. if CAS = SPP.
if Foul = CAS then SPP.

nice. perfect. simple. no exeptions. more spp for hitting.

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Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again

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Re: Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again

Re: Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again