Negative Traits, how can they be improved.

[MistWraith]

The argument that giving a balanced big guy to everyone is dull and then equating it to everyone having a thrower or a str4 blocker is silly. Why do people like big guys? Because they are a fun interesting thing to add on to your team. So, why can not every team have a fun interesting add on? Why were some randomly selected teams chosen to have more fun?

As for the Wood Elves should get a Treeman, because they are AV7 foolishness. Your assertion might be true, except for the fact that they are faster, than a regular elf. The only good way to win against them, is to hurt the linemen so badly they leave the positional players unprotected. You have to hurt them soon and often, to stand a chance of winning. With a treeman on the line, this becomes exponentially more difficult. Wood Elves are a powerful and highly competitive team without a treeman. Throw in the treeman, and they are one of the best (if not the best) team in the game.

As for the extra positional players, it just brought them in line with the other similar teams. And, they also lost the free re-rolls. Sure the re-rolls needed to go, and Sure JJ was really drunk when he thought of them. None the less, they were a part of the team. If we start randomly taking things away from teams, without a decent explanation, or compensation, then why not start with the top teams and work your way down? Not from the middle and work your way up and down.

[Zombie]

Not everyone likes big guys, just as not everyone likes throwers. Don't play a team with no big guy if you like them so much, just as you shouldn't play chaos dwarves if you love the passing game.

You really haven't given a single good reason why every team should have a big guy, when there's nothing else in the game that every team has access to. Not apothecaries, not wizards, not throwers, not even linemen. The fact that some teams have them and some teams don't helps give the teams personality.

Fun is not a good reason. Big guys may be fun for you, but it doesn't mean they're also fun for the next guy.

[Zombie]

As for the extra positional players, it just brought them in line with the other similar teams.

The only reason wood elves had more positional players and access to a big guy star player in 3rd ed was to compensate for their low AV. Otherwise, that team would have been mediocre compared to high elves and dark elves, and no one would have ever played them.

As for undead, i don't see how giving them 10 positional players brings them in line with other similar teams. Chaos dwarves have 8, dwarves have 6 and chaos have 4.

And, they also lost the free re-rolls.

That's not a fair argument. You know very well that BB2k1 was made from 3rd ed, not from 4th ed. Bringing 4th ed into the equation is totally irrelevant.

[Munkey]

I also think we should leave Wood Elves out of this discussion for the sake of a fair argument.

I have seen several postings here (my own included) that Wood Elves should not have treemen and that seems to be blurring the discussion somewhat.

Whether they should or shouldn't is not whats being discussed on this thread but, as this point is at least contentious, it does not make good evidence for either argumanet on whether all teams should have a big guy.

[Zombie]

Indeed.

[Dave]

AMEN!!!!!!