A few thoughts on Khemri

[mattgslater]

The thing with Thro-Ras is that without rolling something special, your skill choices are pretty slim after you have Block and Tackle on them. When your choice then is between Fend, Leader or Kick-Off Return, it's not exactly like any one of those is heads and shoulders above the others.

Considering ag2/mv6 I would say KOR is pretty valuable. A fair amount of the time you can get a free catch attempt, and even if you blow it then have the ball marked.

Yeah I’d say that Thro-ras are one of the few players that would actually benefit from KoR. With their lack of speed and agility they need all the extra MA they can get and as you said a free shot at catching the ball if you can get under it is certainly worth it.

+1. Thro-Ras, Orc Blitzers, Dwarf Runners, and a #4 for a MA6 retriever on an AG3 team, like a Hobgoblin (+AG, Block, SH, KOR, Fend).

[plasmoid]

I've tried it with underworld and was very pleased. 2nd pick after Extra Arms. (My other guy takes block first, and gets the ball in case we're up against cage-popping fiends like a wardancer).

It allows that one thrower to cover the entire backfield pretty well. And we need all the man-power up front that we can muster.

It also really helps with OTS.

Cheers
Martin

[mattgslater]

It also really helps with OTS.

Yes, yes it does.

[Smeborg]

It also really helps with OTS.

Yes, yes it does.

I can't recall having attempted OTS with Khemri yet .

I agree that KoR is great on (say) Underworld or Nurgle, especially on a player with X-Arms and S-Hands. The Thrower/Runner thus has only a 1 in 36 chance of dropping the ball, and is therefore 35/36 likely to scoot to where you want him to be.

With Khemri, however, you have a 1 in 4 chance of dropping the ball, which is a very different kettle of fish. I am developing a system for the first turn of offense which combines the following elements:

- Cage or screen is formed around the ball before it is picked up (especially if within range of any opposing players). Thus the 1 in 4 chance of a spilt ball (4 in 9 in the event of pouring rain) is catered for before it happens.

- One or (preferably) both Thro-Ras deploy deep, ideally where they cannot be put in the tackle zones of oppposing players in the event of a Blitz result on the kick-off table, or an early turnover (e.g. quad skull). This is important as they cannot safely dodge away.

I am not sure that KoR helps with either of these relatively common situations, either of which will lose the match if not planned for. Planning for failure is very much a part of the Khemri offense, I suggest. Having said that, I can see situations where KoR would help, for example when you have a 2-turn score attempt or similar. But I incline towards skills which work on both offense and defense.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

The thing with Thro-Ras is that without rolling something special, your skill choices are pretty slim after you have Block and Tackle on them. When your choice then is between Fend, Leader or Kick-Off Return, it's not exactly like any one of those is heads and shoulders above the others.

I agree, Juriel, but a choice must nevertheless be made, unless you want to keep re-hiring Thro-Ras when they reach 31 SPPs .

As said elsewhere on this thread, I consider Leader a waste on such an important player. crimsonsun shares this view.

Regarding KoR, I understand the strengths of the skill, but as I argue above, I am not sure of its merits for Khemri.

Thus I like Fend as 3rd normal skill. But it is also important to have a coherent plan for doubles and stat increases, so that the Thro-Ras develop harmoniously.

All the best.

[Juriel]

but a choice must nevertheless be made, unless you want to keep re-hiring Thro-Ras when they reach 31 SPPs .

If they don't roll anything useful by then, yeah, I do tend to fire them.

[mattgslater]

Fend is worthwhile on pretty much any Block player. Not great, but useful. Better for Skels, though. Shut down Frenzy routes, that kind of thing.

[Smeborg]

but a choice must nevertheless be made, unless you want to keep re-hiring Thro-Ras when they reach 31 SPPs .

If they don't roll anything useful by then, yeah, I do tend to fire them.

Juriel - what do you define as "something useful" in this context?

All the best.

[Juriel]

Juriel - what do you define as "something useful" in this context?

Anything outside regular skill rolls. There just aren't enough good normal skills for Thro-Ras to pick. Block first, then KOR/Fend or Tackle depending on role, but then... eh.

Even +MA is great, as the difference between MA6 and MA7 is surprisingly big.

[Smeborg]

Thanks, Juriel, I agree +MA is outstanding on a Thro-Ra.

What doubles do you take on them?

[SunDevil]

I need your help!

I have a playoff game against an old rival Orc team coming up. My Khemri have played these guys every season for the past three and we have a 1-1-1 record.

First game - It was tied 1-1 and I had about 7 Orcs in the KO box so I was driving to win. On turns 6 AND 7, he dodged into my cage for a 5 (4AG Blitzer) and 2DB uphill-ed my ballcarrier - double stars both times. So we tied.

Second game - Second half, its 0-0 and I'm driving. He pops the ball out but can't get it as he tries for two turns to throw a Long Bomb to a lone Blitzer downfield. My Sure Hands fails for two turns as well. He finally Dodges his Thrower (no Dodge), picks up in a TZ, Dodges out, throws a Long Bomb for a 5 with Accurate (fail, Pass RR, good), I fail the intercept, and his Blitzer catches it and runs away on turn 6. All my guys were upfield and I could not get him. He stalls, scores on 8, wins 1-0.

This season, we played and I stayed on my half of the pitch on defense as his Thrower looked for a way through. When the Khemri gave no ground (get 'em lads!) he tried to throw over me and a TG intercepted it. I then grinded everyone, he got frustrated and stopped playing the ball and I won 3-0.

He has one game left to be processed and then I can post current builds for both our teams because I am going to need everyone's help to beat this guy. He is probably the best coach in our playoffs and I truly believe the winner of our game will go on to win both the semis and the championship as the other teams are - bash Norse (that got killed by these same Orcs twice this season, their only losses), wounded Norse (recently destroyed by the other Norse), wounded CDs (beat up badly Week 10 by these Orcs), CDs, Skaven and destroyed Skaven. The three wounded teams took horrible beatings in their final regular season games and I know I can beat the remaining Norse and/or CD team.

But gotta put these Orcs away first!

Here's my team and I'll post the Orcs when his last game is processed...

SUN CITY DEVILS (Season 4) 208 TV - 3 RRs

1. Basker the Black - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard
2. Ebru Zon - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Block, Guard
3. Auba de Beng - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard, Grab
4. Jualis Eb - Tomb Guardian - MiB, Guard, Break Tackle
5. Ordog Sol - Blitz-Ra - MiB, Guard, Tackle, Pile On, Dauntless (League cas leader with 17 in 10 games!)
6. Beelzebub Xmex - Blitz-Ra - MiB, Guard, Tackle, Pile On
7. Asmo Deus - Thro-Ra - Block, Leader, +AG, Fend, Tackle
8. Dielli Dia Bolos - Thro-Ra - Block, Kick-Off Return, Dump Off
9. Old Bendy - Skeleton - +ST, Block, Fend (-2MV so his MV is less than his ST!)
10. Son of Boy - Skeleton - Block, Kick (niggle)
11. Old Clootson - Skeleton - Block
12. Young Gooseberry - Skeleton - Dirty Player
13. Old Scratch - Skeleton - Dirty Player, Block
14. Young Fiddler - Skeleton - rookie

I don't know about inducements, but I suspect I'll have around 100K. I'm considering just buying a Wizard but my opponent is known for this and might do it first as the higher TV team, giving me around 250K (estimate).

My plan is hopefully to receive (higher seeds get +1 to kick/receive in this league for playoffs, I'm the #3 and he's the #6), grind the line, keep the TGs only one space apart, foul only when I get +4 AND DP, and try to grind right up the middle of the pitch. I don't want the sideline because he has TWO 5-ST BoBs with Block, Mighty Blow, FRENZY. One is niggled (he has 3 niggles on his team, which I will look to exploit) so that helps. I will prioritize the injured Orcs to make it easier to remove them, especially that 5-ST niggled BoB. Optimally, no surprise here, I score on Turn 8 with broken or dead Orc bodies all around.

Also, I plan on trying to 'surprise' him by not Piling On so much. I really want to emphasize the standing Guard wall, only Piling On when I break Armor first try or when his Sneaky Git Goblin cannot get a foul in. The Orcs have 8 Mighty Blow but only 4 or so Guard (I think) and I'm pretty sure one of his Guard Blitzers is missing the game.

If I kick, I'll try to pin it deep, and push forward, playing my 11 against his 8 or 9 - minus the Orcs that run back for the ball - for a few turns. I'll stay in front as best I can but keep the Thro-Ras and Blitz-Ras (when not hitting) right behind the TGs and Skellies, looking to break through the line (the Grab TG is great for creating openings) and pressure the ball if the Orc hands are not so sure. I'd be fine just sitting on the ball all half to prevent the score, only trying for a TD if the ball is well protected or dead and injured Orcs are everywhere.

Thoughts? Again, I'll post the Orc team when I can but if you want to see the roster without his last game factored in (one missing Orc will return, another was knocked out for our game) you can find it at http://iowa.bloodbowlleague.com/default.asp?p=ro&t=sme

I appreciate any and all help from Khemri coaches around the world! I've been successful with this team but I think this is their very best shot at winning a championship. They've been to the semi-finals two of the last three years, losing heartbreakers to the eventual champ both times. So all help is appreciated!

Go Khemri!

[Shteve0]

The strategy of staying on your feet unless you get a 'natural' (inc MB) break seems sound. If you can restrict the number of safe blocks he can make, his own spammed MB will come into play less.

As for inducements, bribes stick out, and possibly a babe if you have 50k unused. If you have 190, maybe a bribe and a DP skelly. If you can take out his DP and clear a couple of orcs, you have the option of kicking your PiOn to press the advantage.

[SunDevil]

A bribe will probably happen, but i have to take the wizard. Instant cage disruption, potential drive stop against a team that isn't much faster than the Khemri is a must.

Wish that last game would get processed so I could post his build and know how many inducements I'll get!

[mattgslater]

Beautiful team you got, Chance. No advice yet, maybe in a bit, but that's just gorgeous.

[SunDevil]

Beautiful team you got, Chance. No advice yet, maybe in a bit, but that's just gorgeous.

Thanks Matt! Between these 4 TGs and the 4 or 5 that have been killed/SIed, I've rolled about 30 skills for them over 4 seasons and gotten ONE doubles - sixes, which I skipped for Block. That TG has since been killed twice but Regenned both times.

But it will all be for nothing if the Orcs get the best of my Khemri in that game! I look forward to your help!