Negative Traits, how can they be improved.

[Munkey]

I think the change to Really Stupid is OTT.

In my opinion it also needs to be consistent with the result for failing the a Bonehead roll, esentially it is a slightly worse Bonehead at the moment.

I would be happy to try Bonehead and RS failures causing re-rolls. I agree that something needs to be done about this though.

Take Root should be changed to an on pitch version.

I still don't like WA because of the lack of tactical choice in using the player and the beardy gang up on the WA to stuff the team tactic, but I agree it's probably negative enough.

[Munkey]

Of course almost everyone who can take a big guy does. They do the same thing with every positiopnal player...except maybe Witch elves, and slayers. Just cause everyone takes them is no reason to make them worse! Tone down WA, and leaave big guys alone. They are fun, people like them.

Big Guys are supposed to be awesome, and a draw for the crowd. That impact is reduced where every team has one. Oh look another Ogre. Wow

Besides if you read the fluff not many of the teams have them. The Reavers don't have an Ogre, how likely is that on a human team. About 0% in my league.

[Dave]

maybe it's a good idea to design a big guy for every team and to take into account the way the teams play

no please don't. That would give os only teams with BG's.

Take some away, make them scarce pleeeese

[chsic]

The Kroxigor has the same mild negatrait as the Ogre, but isn't commonly seen as a problem because he is used less frequently. I wonder if people would still have a problem with Ogres if they were limited to just a few teams?

It resolves only a part of the problem.
Here are the problems that it will stay:
1) chaos will always take the ogre rather than the troll or the minotaur (idem for mixed team).
2) L ogre remains stronger than the other BG all the same and is better an ogre rather than " 2 human linemen + 2ff " (120pts) for example IMO.
3) It is harmful for the fluff that the team orcs lose him, but necessities so that they do not stay irresistible as at present...
For the Kroxigor, First two sentence quoted higher remain valid for him.
To put it at the level of the other negatrait would totally resolve problem and we could pass in the other thing

[Dave]

It resolves only a part of the problem.
Here are the problems that it will stay:
1) chaos will always take the ogre rather than the troll or the minotaur (idem for mixed team).
2) L ogre remains stronger than the other BG all the same and is better an ogre rather than " 2 human linemen + 2ff " (120pts) for example IMO.
3) It is harmful for the fluff that the team orcs lose him, but necessities so that they do not stay irresistible as at present...
For the Kroxigor, First two sentence quoted higher remain valid for him.
To put it at the level of the other negatrait would totally resolve problem and we could pass in the other thing

I agree with skummy here.

1) Remove the ogre then
2) agree, all the more reason to cut back his availability
3) sure?? I'm not with you on that one. Trolls hang around with Orcs, not Ogres.

IMHO!!

[chsic]

3) sure?? I'm not with you on that one. Trolls hang around with Orcs, not Ogres.

IMHO!!

It is true that the troll is more representative than the ogre and anyway I am not going to cry because the orcs whales lose it ( They have enough choices without him).
Norses loses also the ogre, nevertheless is it that the minotaure is more representative for the norses than the ogre? I do not think (but it is another problem).
While is worth you it better to make?
1) To limit him to the only human team (and mixed races)?
2) Put him at the level of the other BG and authorize him for team who by their fluff must or can have an ogre?

[Mirascael]

Wild Animal- This is the only one that is very negative, I would only stop the dodge out then blitz back in option.

To eliminate all that confusion concerning WA once and for all:

1) must move first

2) must block an adjacent player if standing next to him at the beginning of its turn (i.e. no Blitz)

K.I.S.S.!

[Skummy]

To eliminate all that confusion concerning WA once and for all:

1) must move first

2) must block an adjacent player if standing next to him at the beginning of its turn (i.e. no Blitz)

K.I.S.S.!

I agree that this is the way it should work, but some people think that if you declare a blitz while standing next to an opponent, then you can dodge away and hit them. There was a lot of disagreement on this, and I don't think it should be legal, but it's on the Hot List nonetheless.

[Xtreme]

The Reavers don't have an Ogre, how likely is that on a human team. About 0% in my league.

If I had a player like Mighty Zug on my team I wouldn't take an ogre either.

[Dave]

ssshhh that guy's mother is an Ogress, don't tell him you heard it from me

[Jhykron]

I guess it's all in what you are trying to accomplish with the negatraits.

Assuming the intent is to make players seriously think twice about including big guys on their team, then Wild Animal is about the right level of misery, IMO. And I'm not sure what the big deal is about using a blitz to dodge out and in for the hit- what big advantage is gained from this?

I'm thinking bonehead and RS might be helped out by the big guys with those traits being prone to actually -doing- something incredibly obtuse, instead of just standing around picking their noses. Something like:

--
The bonehead roll is made at the beginning of a player's turn. If it fails, the player must make its required action immediately.

If the player has the ball, he must move his full distance toward the wrong endzone.

If the player is in range to pick up the ball, he must attempt to do so, then run it toward the wrong endzone.

If the player has Throw Team mate, and is within movement range of a player with right stuff who has the ball, he must attempt to throw that player as far as possible toward the wrong endzone.

If there is a prone opposing player within movement range, the player must attempt a foul on the prone opponent. The foul may not be assisted, and because it was so clumsy and blatant, the roll to send the player off the field is at +2.

If none of the above conditions are relavent, roll 1d6. On a 1-3, the player commits some technical rules infraction and causes an illegal procedure for his team, on a 4-6, he loses his tackle zone for a turn as per the current rules.
--

Hey, it could use a lot of work, but would certainly make bonehead and really stupid hurt more.

[Skummy]

And I'm not sure what the big deal is about using a blitz to dodge out and in for the hit- what big advantage is gained from this?

If you also have Stand Firm, you can fail the blitz, not fall down, and not have to act first with your WA at all. At the very least, he's not going to have to throw that 2 die block at disadvantage.

[Relborn]

WOW I really can smell cheeeese here ...

[Jhykron]

And I'm not sure what the big deal is about using a blitz to dodge out and in for the hit- what big advantage is gained from this?

If you also have Stand Firm, you can fail the blitz, not fall down, and not have to act first with your WA at all. At the very least, he's not going to have to throw that 2 die block at disadvantage.

Well, that still burns up your blitz, which can certainly be a pain. I can see where that violates the probable intent of the rule- of course, a small clarification could easily make it so that even if the WA blitzes, it must still throw the block before doing anything else.

[Dave]

givvem break tackle and SF, no probs then