Gnoll Team and new Trait idea

tchatter · Post by **tchatter** » Wed May 07, 2003 6:42 pm

What if you split it...

0-8 get Strip Ball

0-8 get Guard

0-1 Alpha Male

Another thought... was Dump Off. I just imagine a bunch of hyenias playing 'hot potato' with a hunk of meat... So maybe half have strip ball the other half have Dump Off. The half that have dump off have access to passing and general.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 6:48 pm

Hi guys .... I'm going to add in my quick two cents here.

See my wife works for a Zoo in the African/Australia area .... as such ... I actually know some things about Hyenas.

In order to have the Alpha thing work ... Gnolls would have to be considered more like Lions.

The real leader of the Hyena species is the Spotted Hyena. There are also Striped and Brown species.

Big difference between them. The Spotted Hyenas are fierce predators not scavengers. They hunt in packs, can run 30 MPH, can bite with 4000 PSI of pressure, and can continue to apply that much force even while its victim violently resists. They normally bring down their own kills and lions follow them around for scavenge from them ... not the other way around. Spotted Hyenas are born as aggressive killers. Cubs begin fighting practically from birth, 25% of all Spotted Hyenas die from fights with litter mates before reaching adulthood. And probably most important of all. They have an Alpha FEMALE not a male. Females are the dominant in the Hyena species. Its one of the only mammal species where this is the case.

Now the Striped and Brown species are the scavengers following Lions around to steal parts of their kills. Spotted Hyenas will do this also from female lions, but it is more because they can then because they need to. In fact the ones that follow the Lions have to be very fast and agile, because male lions will attack and kill Hyenas on site without any provication ... call it a blood feud ... but its definitely fact that Lions hate Spotted Hyenas.

So if you wanted to build a team based on Hyenas .... it would be fast, it would have scouts to follow female lions around for potential free meals, and would be very in your face when going for the kill (ie the ball).

My thoughts based on this would be:

0-12 Gnoll: 7/3/3/7 Strip Ball 70k G, S
0-4 Pack Female: 7/3/3/7 Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k G, S
0-2 Gnoll Scouts: 8/3/3/7 Shadowing, Dodge 100k G,A
60k rerolls

The minis match up well to this in my opinion.. Mid #2 = Female, Striker = Scout, and Mid #1 and Defender are close enough to be the generic pose for the Gnoll.

The skill choices. Spotted Hyenas are agressively killers with a bite designed to take something and not give it back ... Phil was right ... Strip Ball is a very good match for this. The Females get Sure Hands for the same reason ... to represent the fact that once they have their goal in their bite ... its not going anywhere. Its also adds varitey to the team. Then I agree with using the Alpha Males rules about +1 ST and Leader to the Female with the most SPPs at the end of each game. A change in power at the end of a game results in an injury roll for the previous Alpha Female. Finally the Spotted Hyenas do use scouts to track lion kills. A scout to stay alive would have to be good at tracking it target and fast/agile enough to not get killed once spotted. Giving the Gnolls and the Females ST access represents their aggression and gives you the option of creating that Pack image if the coach chooses to load up on Guard ... which would be a mistake in my opinion to start them with. Spotted Hyenas frequently attack members of their own pack ... not really a Guard type mentality there.

These are my thoughts, based on what I know.

Galak

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed May 07, 2003 6:49 pm

Thetian wrote:I hate to break it to you guys, but hyenas have a matriarchal society. That's right it's an Alpha Female we should be talking about.

Bitch!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 6:57 pm

Or to summarize my long post.

If you guys want a roster based on Hyenas it would look like this:

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN/ST
0-4 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN/ST
0-2 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG
Re-rolls 60k
"Alpha Female": The Pack Female player with the most SPP's on a Gnoll team gains +1 strength and the Leader skill. If at the end of a game (after MVPs are awared) another Pack Female player on the Gnoll team overtakes the leader in SPP's, they become the new Alpha Female. Immediately make an injury roll for the previous Alpha Female, who also loses her strength bonus and the leader skill. If two players are tied for the lead in SPP's then there is no Alpha Female and no player gains the +1 ST and Leader skill (hence there will not be an Alpha Female when the team is created).

This team I would agree with and allow in one of my leagues.

Galak

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:08 pm

All the Gnolls have strength skills? That makes them a little more bashy than I'd pictured.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:12 pm

Skummy wrote:All the Gnolls have strength skills? That makes them a little more bashy than I'd pictured.

Spotted Hyenas are complete killers. If you want to make the team more like the Striped and Brown Hyenas ... remove the ST access from Gnoll Lineman and Pack Females and up the Scouts to 0-4. Since those Hyena races are more scavenger based rather than aggressors.

Galak

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:18 pm

Galak.... Is there no topic for which you do not possess a frame of reference?

I like it. A possible starting roster is:
9 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN/ST
1 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN/ST
1 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG
2 RRs
7 FF

The only problem I see is that they are pretty vulnerable to start with. With AV7, no block or dodge to help protect, and a minimum cost of 70, I can see a tough first or second game really hurting this team. 10 or 12 games into a season though, they could be tough.

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:19 pm

i hate it when reality ruins my good times...

no, seriously, i think tom's probably onto a better overall _team_ though to be honest, i liked the formal (in a platonic sense) notion of the 1-position guard team...

of the team ideas tom put forward, i'd say go with the no strength skills, upped scout version... it's actually an interesting team...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:45 pm

phil wrote:i hate it when reality ruins my good times...

no, seriously, i think tom's probably onto a better overall _team_ though to be honest, i liked the formal (in a platonic sense) notion of the 1-position guard team...

of the team ideas tom put forward, i'd say go with the no strength skills, upped scout version... it's actually an interesting team...

No offense, Phil ... but I already have that with the Chaos Halfling team that you made. I really don't need another 1-position ST 2 Guard team in the MBBL2. I really like the Chaos Halflings, and am glad to have them in the league.

And why am I raining on your good times ... you proposed the single position Strip Ball player team. Which really I'm fine with.

I'd be happy with either of the following teams:

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball, Alpha Female 70k, GEN/ST
Re-rolls 60k

OR

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN
0-4 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN
0-4 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG
Re-rolls 60k

Like I said, this is modeling the team more on the Lesser Hyena races but that's fine. Which one do you guys actually prefer (phil???)

And mrin ... I have a verbal eidetic memory. Somedays .. it comes in handy.

Galak

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed May 07, 2003 7:50 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote: No offense, Phil ... but I already have that with the Chaos Halfling team that you made. I really don't need another 1-position ST 2 Guard team in the MBBL2. I really like the Chaos Halflings, and am glad to have them in the league.

i've got them in my league too... but i identify this as a way to perhaps introduce teh all-guard concept on a team that might actually border on legitimate without being overpowering... probably still not a possible roster though... and not everyone uses teh chaflings the way we thought them up (hell, i don't even use them the way we thought them up)...

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Wed May 07, 2003 8:08 pm

Code: Select all

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN/ST 
0-4 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN/ST 
0-2 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG 
Re-rolls 60k 
"Alpha Female": The Pack Female player with the most SPP's on a Gnoll team gains +1 strength and the Leader skill. If at the end of a game (after MVPs are awared) another Pack Female player on the Gnoll team overtakes the leader in SPP's, they become the new Alpha Female. Immediately make an injury roll for the previous Alpha Female, who also loses her strength bonus and the leader skill. If two players are tied for the lead in SPP's then there is no Alpha Female and no player gains the +1 ST and Leader skill (hence there will not be an Alpha Female when the team is created).

You know, I think I really like this team. I liked the one position team, but I personally like the idea of multiple positions (thus the reason for my trying to make one).

I agree with Phil, though, go with no St. skills and 0-4 scouts. Or maybe just Strength skills on the Pack Females, to represent their position as head of the pack.

Chris

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 8:13 pm

Code: Select all

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN
0-4 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN 
0-4 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG 
Re-rolls 60k 
"Alpha Female": The Pack Female player with the most SPP's on a Gnoll team gains +1 strength and the Leader skill. If at the end of a game (after MVPs are awared) another Pack Female player on the Gnoll team overtakes the leader in SPP's, they become the new Alpha Female. Immediately make an injury roll for the previous Alpha Female, who also loses her strength bonus and the leader skill. If two players are tied for the lead in SPP's then there is no Alpha Female and no player gains the +1 ST and Leader skill (hence there will not be an Alpha Female when the team is created).

Okay that's 4 votes for this concept then ....

Also don't worry about the Gnoll females not working with Phil's Gnoll team ... Female Hyenas are so dominant that they have a false penis. IE if they were humanoid ... you probably would not really be able to tell the males from the females visually. Kinda like the running joke about Females dwarves in the Discworld books. So Phil minis still work perfectly well for this team.

Galak

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Wed May 07, 2003 9:29 pm

I must admit I still like the concept of the str 2 all guard team. The idea is to make them act as a pack. Maybe a better team to use this on would be a wolf or wild dog based team rather than Hyenas - as Tom's zoology lesson has pointed out!

I do think the team Tom has proposed is very workable and having a solid fluff background makes it even more solid. I feel that the scouts should be str 2 instead of str 3 (which would force a drop in price as well). As Tom pointed out they avoid fights and rely on their agility and speed to escape. The gnolls are fine as they are - although I am not sure about the access to strength skills. The Pack Females are cool. Sure Hands conjures up the image of the mother carrying her young in her mouth (probably mixing up dogs and Hyenas here) but is probably more realisticaly the Pack Female carrying off the best part of a kill (not going to drop those intestines for some vulture to steal!).

So I can go with this team - but I am going to mourn the loss of the 1 position Gnoll team

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Wed May 07, 2003 9:42 pm

Just a thought... limiting the Alpha Female concept to just 4 players pretty much ruins it. If the starting roster that mrinprophet produced:

9 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN/ST
1 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN/ST
1 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG
2 RRs
7 FF

was used then the single Pack Female on the team would automatically get +1 str and Leader. So if you never buy another Pack Female she will always keep these upgrades. That makes her a very cheap player at 80k.
For me the concept of Alpha Female/ Male only works in a team where the majority (if not all) players have the trait.
Maye you could force the coach to buy 4 Pack Females at the start of the team... but this seems like a fudge to cover up a rules error to me.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed May 07, 2003 9:48 pm

DaImp wrote:Maye you could force the coach to buy 4 Pack Females at the start of the team... but this seems like a fudge to cover up a rules error to me.

I value Sure Hands too much to not get more than 1 female ... also give them ST skills back as they are the dominants and you have a player that you will want more of.

Galak