Message To JJ, et al: DO NOT CHANGE EXISTING TEAMS

ceresX11 · Post by **ceresX11** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:16 pm

I don't like the changes being proposed for the undead team, but that is beside the point of this particular message. My point is simply this:

DO NOT (SIGNIFICANTLY) CHANGE EXISTING TEAMS!

Its the most disrespectful thing you can do to your players. Coaches invest untold hours in teams: they buy minis, painstakingly paint them, they play countless games with their team to build them up, they develop strategies for the team style, etc., etc.

Adding a couple of positional players, or tweaking a team for balance is fine; creating, testing and publishing new teams is great, but pulling the rug out from under coaches by completely changing or "deleting" published official teams is unacceptable for players who have invested in them.

STOP THE MADNESS!

-ceresX11

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:35 pm

I guess the change of Undead team, which is optional, it's still good to remind it, will make a big earthquake... whereas the allies system, which is also optional, isn't source of any thread (I've still notread it, I must admit, so I'm a little bit curious

)...

Curious ? Sure.

Haar · Post by **Haar** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:15 pm

can you point me to a thread/page that describes the proposed changes to the undead?

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:17 pm

I post very little... but you can sign my name to that petition.

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:49 pm

Mine too. I'd like to see precisely 1 (that's ONE) change to rosters: Dark Elves lose their throwers and gain Runners. These runners still have Passing, General and Agility access, but start with Sure Hands instead of Pass. New Runner models would be cool, and its in keeping with the team's flavour. You could still use the old models if you wish.

The new Undead rosters are HORRIBLE.

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:43 pm

I am not a fan of the new Undead roster either, I much prefer the current one.

I think the Khemri roster could be cool though, I was glad to see it go in a new direction at least! I wasn't a big fan of the old team list.

Remember these are only experimental rules, so the whole point is to send your feedback to Fanatic. If you don't like something then let them know! Better yet, offer your ideas as well

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:37 pm

Thadrin : I like your idea for DE runners (like dwarf) with sure hands instead of pass.

I like the new undead teams except the werewolf in this team.
Werewolves and undeads are not the same thing (they are only in horror movie).

If you want to use a werewolve create a werewolf team !

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:42 pm

Hey, I agree there should be a werewolf team (they had one in 2ed). But I suppose if GW came out with one, everyone would complain about the stats as well.

ceresX11 · Post by **ceresX11** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:18 pm

Anthony_TBBF wrote:Remember these are only experimental rules, so the whole point is to send your feedback to Fanatic. If you don't like something then let them know! Better yet, offer your ideas as well

FYI: I have no problem with making new, experimental teams, I think thats great. Tuning them correctly and making them official gives great new opportunities to coaches who want to try new teams.

I also have no problem with tweaking teams for balance. Modifying a position on the dark elf roster is fine if it helps balance, etc.

My problem is simple: Don't wholesale change/delete existing official teams. Instead (a) keep teams experimental until they are adequately playtested and (b) don't significantly mess with them after that.

Players get really burned when they pick an official team, shell out for the mini's, invest tons of time painting them, building them up in their local league, only to have them yanked out of the official rules. All of a sudden that team and all your team-specific strategies can't be played in any league which doesn't condone house rules which allow them.

On this issue I think I represent a silent majority of blood bowl players who might not play enough to post often in blood bowl discussion groups, or play/paint multiple teams.

-ceresX11

Haar · Post by **Haar** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:43 pm

I too would like to see a minor tweak that differentiates the Dark elf team from the High elf one a little more. The runner position sounds intriguing, especially since I don't use my passer much to begin with.

Alternatively, you could allow them access to selected mutations. I don't know if that fits the fluff (I'm a newbie at the whole warhammer world thing), but it would make for an interesting team.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:43 pm

Torg wrote:Hey, I agree there should be a werewolf team (they had one in 2ed). But I suppose if GW came out with one, everyone would complain about the stats as well.

Sorry just had to chime in here. The MBBL2 has had a were team for 2 years now and its very very balanced. No one complains about the weres in the MBBL2 and the coaches of were players so far have thought them pretty cool.

All I'm trying to say is that a balanced were team is possible. The Were team on the MBBL2 would make a great official team ... just delete the Werebear and Werecat (added due to the fact that the 2nd edition rulebooks said that Werebears and Werecats played also so we added them).

Galak

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:10 am

I want an official Robot team.

With cool many-piece bitz-based minis to buy for all the different attachments and such.

manusate · Post by **manusate** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:38 am

I agree with ceresX11.

Manu

Fenryll · Post by **Fenryll** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:54 am

I agree totally with CeresX11 !!!!

It's cool to do new team because if you don't try to develop a game, it probably die.

But I think that they mustn't change the Classic Roster.

A question : Why they want to change the Undead who are cool like this and not change the Norse who are cheap ???

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:07 am

I still think the problem is that we are trying to follow (the changes of) the WHFB Old World fluff.

GW changes the races from time to time in order to promote that particular race and to sell more miniatures. Sometimes this makes old miniatures or races obsolete. Such as the old cool chaos dwarves and fimirs, for example.
If we want to follow WHFB exactly, we will have to drop teams and make changes to them in the future. We can't stop the WHFB wheel from rolling, but we perhaps could (IMO should) detach Blood Bowl from it.

At least, as I stated in the Werewolf player thread, we should not equal WHFB army =>BB team. Head coaches are not limited by army lists but rather by what players would play for them. So no separate beastman/marauder teams: a chaos head coach would surely recruit both Chaos Warrior and beastman players.