Kick Rules.

JasonC · Post by **JasonC** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:31 am

Ok, I've seen these now in two annuals and have yet to try them. Since they have been published yet again, can one assume that there is a possibility of them becoming official? Do I need to start using them? Have any leagues used them for say 15-20 games? What results?
Maybe its just me looking to deeply into it, and they are just for S**ts and giggles.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:33 am

Well, from what Galak posted elsewhere, it looks like they going to be made "house Rules". I know he's taken them out of MBBL.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:40 am

I think that is where they belong. It is a good set of rules but changes the game in such a drastic way that all previous tactics are out the window. So I think leagues should choose to use them on their own.

JasonC · Post by **JasonC** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:49 am

That is what I was hoping to hear. I'm getting too old for the games with monster size rule books. If I wanted that I would have sticked with Squad Leader.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat May 17, 2003 12:21 pm

Xtreme wrote:but changes the game in such a drastic way that all previous tactics are out the window.

Totally and completely without question an incorrect statement.

I've been playing with the kicking rules for 2 years, and on average a field goal is scored maybe once every 3 or 4 games. Thats ONE field goal every 3 to 4 games.

The fact is this. Everyone thinks like Xtreme until they actually use the rules. After using the rules, they realize that they really have a minor impact on anything at best. BUT, Chet is tired of fighting a battle where the playtestor agree that the rules aren't broken, and the opponents are people like Zombie saying they'll quit the game if it becomes official. So it moves into house rules. Not because they change the game drastically ... they don't ... not because they were unbalanced ... they weren't .... not because agility teams would dominate leagues ... they didn't ... but because people who had no experience playing said rules screamed that they did these things repeatedly.

In the end that's fine. And Extreme this may come about as harsh, but its comments like yours above that killed these rules.

Heck when I removed them from the MBBL, I actually had several coaches complain about doing so. Like I said, the playtesters never found the problems that everyone who read the rules and "knew" what they did to the game did.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat May 17, 2003 12:24 pm

JasonC wrote:That is what I was hoping to hear. I'm getting too old for the games with monster size rule books. If I wanted that I would have sticked with Squad Leader.

2 to 3 extra pages is a monster sized rulebook ... dang BB coaches are prone to exaggeration.

Galak

Post by **Dave** » Sat May 17, 2003 2:22 pm

I agree with galak here. This doesn't mean I like the rules though

Houserules would be nice IMHO

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sat May 17, 2003 7:16 pm

Galak,

You get the same resistance to Kicking Rules as John and I do for progressive GFIs! Neither change the game drastically but both would probably add some fun to the game.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat May 17, 2003 9:17 pm

Cervidal wrote:Galak,

You get the same resistance to Kicking Rules as John and I do for progressive GFIs! Neither change the game drastically but both would probably add some fun to the game.

Problem with that Cervidal is that I tried the PGFI rules with my Halflings before I commented on the rules and I found my playstyle and tactics severely altered by the rules. So I agree those rules (PGFI) really do change tactics ... we never found the kicking rules to do so.

See PGFI is now an option in the PBeM program ... so I have experimented with it. I agree with you that its the same type of problem, but I don't agree with you that don't change the game drastically. ... I definitely found the PGFI rules to do that for me.

But its all academic now ... both rules are fully programmed into the PBeM program, but will be house rules forever.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat May 17, 2003 10:48 pm

Xtreme told me that his league did test the original kicking rules and all anyone did was try to kick every turn or never tried at all.

So I publically apologize ... his league did try ... so my slam back was uncalled for. He didn't asked for this, but he deserves it.

The leagues that the MBBL used have come a loooonnnggg way from the original article but that doesn't change the fact that he was talking from his own experience and since that was my compliant ... I eat humble pie and like it for my comments ... sorry.

Galak

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sun May 18, 2003 1:02 am

We did playtest them but not long enough for anyone to get comfortable with them so the results can't be considered completly accurate. While we were using them it seemed as if half the coaches just acted like they weren't there and went on about their way while the half were constantly trying to use the new rules. So it didn't work for our league but the rules are well thought out and i'm glad they have been published so many times so that the leagues that like them can house rule them in but they just don't fit with our playing style around here.

So I am sorry for the ignorance or lack of elaborating on my part in my previous post.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:03 am

Not having a local TT league, my only playtesting of these rules has been in the MBBL, but I only kicked I think twice in a 6 game season, and that's with players who should be good at kicking (vamps St4 ag4 basic), and then both times were when I didn't have enough time to score TD.

When we next play a tt league I might try to introduce them.

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Sun May 18, 2003 5:37 pm

In my league we have taken the 2nd edition kicking rules, and made them a little bit simpler. taken away the Kick return skill and so on.

And it works fine, but lets say again, its not something that happen every match, but my wood elf kickers with Punt, is fun, and it makes a little difference in the game.

My oppinion is that the rules don't take away something from the Game, but gives something, not much, but something, and generaly, everything that makes the ball fly around and such, is good in my oppinion, becouse i think there are to much bashing!

Hope that the kicking rules are going to get official.

Link for kicking rules:
http://medlem.jubii.dk/dmnbbl/KickItRulesForKickers.PDF

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon May 19, 2003 1:25 pm

One Kick skill that could be added from the second edition could be "up and under". The ball is kicked so high that it doesn't land until the end of the next teams turn. Could open up a few different tactics. Although i'd suggest it as a trait, as it takes some amount of skill to keep it up there, and is only succesful if the player gets it away without shanking, etc

The use of the skill would generate an automatic turnover, and would then result in the opposition frantically getting players around where the ball will land to attempt to catch at the end of their turn when it drops.

Could be fun

Post by **Dave** » Mon May 19, 2003 6:30 pm

yeah, I think I like that one

Talk Fantasy Football

Kick Rules.

Kick Rules.

The kicking rules are Great is a + for the game