Is playing elves even fun ?

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:53 am

Obviously I have never played the elves ... they just appear extremely boring to me - the strategy is depressingly simple "dont roll 1" should cover it quite well. Obviously there's more to it - but that's the basic tactical plan for elves ... throwing & catching the ball, dodging around ... it's just too damn easy to be fun. Must be.

It's no secret (not now anyway) that I've never played elven teams ... usually it's been humans and Skaven ... but most recently it's Chaos Dwarves. When I play this great game I want to outplay my opponent with my mind, not by avoiding rolling 1's.

Now a 4th elven team is in the works ... Christ ... and the high and mighty know-it-all's are apparantly debating whether the players should get leap or NoS from the get-go to the catchers ... sigh ... can it can any easier to build a team by scoring TD's ? The tactical options defending against someone like that is damn hard to find - putting tacklezones on them wont do much good. Their blitzer's get sidestep, yet another excellent skill to use against teams trying to push them around a bit. And dont even get me started on team developement favoring the elves.

Sigh ... just a little bit depressed ... and eager to stomp on elves ...

I'm not usually like this ... I just dont like the elves when it comes to Bloodbowl

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:01 am

Well I play elves. I find playing anything but elves a little dull.... Playing dwarfs, chaos and orcs is generally more dull as the scoreline is low and the game generally degenerates into a mid field punch up - with few tactics...

Elf vs. Elf (or fast vs. fast) is usually fast paced and exciting...

And 2+ will fail 1 in 6 times. I usually try to AVOID as much rolling as possible... So its hardly "easy".

Best game recently was in the Student Nationals, High Elf vs. Wood elf - loads of entertaining events and the game ended 5-3

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:27 am

I play Wood Elves and I must say it is hardly boring. It requires a lot of tactical thinking about where your players are going to be, and how they are going to stay safe. Okay, the 4 Agility is bliss, but that is severly countered by their Armour of only 7 and their Cost.
I usually still end up playing the second half with only 7 players, less if there's been a pitch invasion. There's simply no money to buy a 12th player on a starting team (unless you don't mind playing with only 1 re-roll or a FF of 1)
I must agree with Noodle that most other teams just end up a pitched battle round the LOS, unless someone has a blunderbuss

So the big thing with Elves is just keeping them alive, so I can imagine you having more fun playing with Chaos Dwarves then with Skaven. It would seem that skaven would have the same problem. Skaven Tactics: Pick up Ball, Throw ball to GutterRunner, TouchDown. Now that I'm looking at the team-lists, WoodElves and Skaven aren't that much different, both Low Armour and High Speed, only WE have AG 4, and Skaven cost 20k per player less.

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:38 am

I was of course oversimplyfying(sp?) things for the sake of argument

However. There was a reason. It appears that a lot of elven coaches complain about things they can't cope with within their own team, meaning facing strength-teams and stalling tactics.

Playing dwarfs, chaos and orcs is generally more dull as the scoreline is low and the game generally degenerates into a mid field punch up - with few tactics...

really really depends on the definition of tactics. There's a lot of tactics in the way you take your blocks, the positions you move in to etc. Besides, the way I play there's plenty of movement of the ball ... those Bull Centaurs can really fly and switch the attack from one side to another in a blink of an eye ... that in itself is a good tactics. And fun.

So the big thing with Elves is just keeping them alive, so I can imagine you having more fun playing with Chaos Dwarves then with Skaven. It would seem that skaven would have the same problem.

Actually playing skaven was fun too. Atleast they are not AG4 across the board. Chaos Dwarfs are interesting though - as I have had to develope brand new tactics. That's fun. With regards to skaven and elves I'd say the Skaven are more challenging - due to the lower AG. However, with mutations they can really be fun developing ... the elves are sort of one-dimensional I'd think ...

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:12 pm

Elves aren't the team I think of when I think 1 dimensional. That honour would go to dwarfs and orcs... "What shall we do today lads?" "Er... bash em?"

Elves can make good running teams, passing teams and even blocking teams - though they are a bit hit and run...

los_locos · Post by **los_locos** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:15 pm

Keeping those elves alive and score a TD in turn 8 with only 4 elves left on the pitch could be fun!!! And defense is also pretty hard with elves, I think its fun enough to play elves.

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:30 pm

noodle wrote: Elves aren't the team I think of when I think 1 dimensional. That honour would go to dwarfs and orcs... "What shall we do today lads?" "Er... bash em?"

Spoken like someone who simply lacks the imagination to make them anything other than a bash team.
Dwarfs can make a fine passing team if you do it right.

harley_topper · Post by **harley_topper** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:24 pm

I personally don't like elves, but it is always a good match against them. I don't think that it is boring to play them, you have a lot of options how to develop them and how to play with them.
The most used one is passing and quick scoring, that's right but is not boring to play against these teams, cause you need a good tactic to stop them scoring.

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:05 pm

Thadrin wrote:Dwarfs can make a fine passing team if you do it right.

I'd really love to see you play dwarves. Maybe my Kneecap Naggers (TM) could learn a thing or two...

gutterboy · Post by **gutterboy** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:00 pm

Woodies may score in two turns every time... but that doesn't win many matches against strength teams. Elves win games by causing turnovers, which means we have to plan how to get the ball off you without losing too many casualties.

You can't stop us scoring at the start of one half. But against a stalling team, that's simply not enough.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:11 pm

I find that the game itself is pretty boring with elves (bashing is much more tactical and much harder to execute), but the team development part is more interesting than with any other race. That's why i still play elves once in a while, because the team development part is a big part of the fun of Blood Bowl for me.

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:06 pm

Some of the most tactical and exciting games have been elves vs elves, and orcs vs dwarves. It all depends on the players who are playing, I believe no one style is boring, it depends on the player who controls them.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:33 pm

Hmmm...bashing coaches v. elf coaches.

It bugs me when people give polarised opinions on the game or tactics based on the particular race that coach tends to favour. Most coaches who play a broad spectrum of races believe the races are pretty well balanced, certainly to a greater extent than the 'one dimensional' coaches.
They also tend to have a better all-round grasp of the game.
OK, gross generalisation there, and yeah, I'm baiting a little bit, but c'mon..get a grip.

Asperon Thorn · Post by **Asperon Thorn** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:45 pm

Actually Deathwing hit it on the nose. Polarized internet discussions get nowhere, and manage to fill up page after page. One could easily argue that a 2-die block is more likely to suceed than a 1 die 2+ dodge (pushback counting as a success). And one could easily argue that ball protection on a player that can't handle it on anymore than a 4+ roll is more tactical. That could also be countered with the necessity of causing turnovers without access to Str skills.

Then it just breaks down to "if's", "should of's" and "You just don't understand." The fact that records show that all teams manage to succeed and fail equally, and that the Bloodbowl, itself, was between two human teams, should really nip these debates in the butt.

Asperon Thorn

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:50 am

Totally agree with Deathwing and Apseron. I really like to think the game is balanced, and that a good coach can win by different way with different teams (well the dice are important too).

I started playong with elves, i really love them and i enjoy playing them. By trying other teams (including orcs, human, skavens, more elves) i still think the roster are balanced, with some little advantage on some team.

I liked marcus post on the 1 turner topic, when he said you got to play differently against different teams and opponent. For me Bloobowl is a mix of Strategy, luck and adaptation .