Which Gutter Runner do you find more usefull?

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:32 am

i voted for the horn dauntless, cos i like to play counter attak!
being 2/0 up dont need a oneturner.
And it is more fun to play. He is a part of the team and not a joker

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:56 pm

I have got a couple of dauntless gutter runners (no horns yet) i just get the 2 dice block by using another player for an assist

though i will often do a one die block with the dauntless stripball guy if they don't have sure hands and there isn't an option to get 2 dice on him, specially if they have blodge and i can't get a tackler in there

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:18 pm

ianwilliams wrote:Scoring when defending wins games. Develop the team to turn your opponent over makes your team much harder to beat that having a 1 turner.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more! Due to a previous advice of ian I went the same way with my Woodie-Catchers (Dauntless even if they had MA+1) and it has definitely paid off. Games are won by an aggressive defense, not with one-turninig!

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:10 pm

Funny that we all agree that Dauntless is better but 25% of the votes go for the OTS. Why do they keep silent?

Also shouldn't we change the sticky to dauntless first? It insist mre on the OTS:
"Double: VLL, NOS or Dauntless then Horns
Look to getting 1 Turn Scorers, they are the purpose of playing Skaven. Shadowing and Pass Block Gutter Runners are useful too

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:21 pm

berserker wrote:Funny that we all agree that Dauntless is better but 25% of the votes go for the OTS. Why do they keep silent?

One turn scorers are more notorious, so they probably garnered quite a few votes from people who looked at the poll and hadn't played skaven. After reading the posts, they may have changed their mind.

los_locos · Post by **los_locos** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:56 pm

One turners aren't that cool anyway, blitzing with a daunless + horned is way better than a one turner and far more enjoyable to play with!!

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:35 pm

Zombie wrote:The one with horns + dauntless is more useful, but he should be since he requires two doubles, and the other one only requires a double or a 10.

Agreed. However, you grab dauntless first which is useful on its own for a GR, then grab horns if you happen to roll another doubles.

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:39 pm

berserker wrote:Funny that we all agree that Dauntless is better but 25% of the votes go for the OTS. Why do they keep silent?

While I like the dauntless idea, here's the reasoning behind the OTS: INTIMIDATION.

I won several games because I *had* a OTS - without even using him! Just having a OTS makes your opponent change their strategy and be more aggressive offensively, and that often leads to mistakes.

Also, having the OTS means a couple TDs per season that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise - let's not pretend otherwise.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:39 am

Matsu wrote:Also, having the OTS means a couple TDs per season that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise - let's not pretend otherwise.

So does Dauntless/Horns, its just less immediately obvious.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:47 am

The OTS is only going to be useful in certain situations. Maybe only a couple times a game. Whereas the dauntless GR can use that skill every turn.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:59 am

I don't completely understand the statement that you win by having a good defense.

If you have a (reliable) OTS your opponent can never rely on playing to the clock. I think that is a HUGE difference.

This will (as stated) change the playing style and tactics of your opponent, which is a great thing.

On top of that, you will NEVER loose if your 1-turner does its job right.
W

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:49 am

"On top of that, you will NEVER loose if your 1-turner does its job right.
W"

Well no, but you will NEVER lose if things go right for you full stop...

Now that surefeet isn't as great as it used to be, coupled with the fact that you can set up a decent anti gutter runner defence OT scorers aren't what they used to be....

In addition, if you have a kick player and two pass block players, you can practically garuantee that you'll be standing right in front of the gutter runner - or at least force a pass AND a hand off (assuming the kick does right!)

Then there are diving tackle players, sidestep and stand frim players to prevent a good run down the pitch....

One turn scoring is extremely risky and will only work about 50% of the time....

You win by AGRESSIVE defence and truning over your opponent....

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:02 pm

Cooper wrote:I don't completely understand the statement that you win by having a good defense.

Good defence is like breaking serve in tennis. If you break your opponent's serve more than they break yours then you win.

As the odds are generally stacked in favour of the offence you don't have to do too much in terms of team development to reliably score on your own offence.

Therefore developing the team to stop your opponent scoring (and ideally turning them over so you can score yourself) is generally more important than improving your own offensive capabilities.

Like I said near the beginning of the thread. 1 turners are useful and if I got +MA on a GR I'd develop them that way (you've got 4 so can spare 1). However doubles turn GRs into very effective blitzers so I'd rather develop them down that path.

Camus · Post by **Camus** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:22 pm

As many people said I'd take the dauntless way. It is easier to develop a oneturner after all, and with just one skill a dauntless GR is much better

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:50 am

ianwilliams wrote:
Cooper wrote:I don't completely understand the statement that you win by having a good defense.
Good defence is like breaking serve in tennis. If you break your opponent's serve more than they break yours then you win.

Well, unless you are playing a GrandSlam, winning two tiebreaks will do the trick as well.
And that is kinda what i meant...unless you get broken you will win, because your tiebreaks are better.

Ofcourse a good defense is also great, i usually develop a turnover specialist as well, but only after i have gone the oneturner-route.

But you don't necesarrliy need him to stop someones offence, if i really want to win i can stop almost any cage...it just costs carnage,
W