Where to put elves on the pitch

[martynq]

[Don't know if this will work in a discussion format, but I'm desperate... ]

I'm having real troubles winning with my elf teams (high & dark). I know the thing about dodging away, I know the stuff about skill choices, etc. So I suspect that my positioning of players must be bad. So where do I want my players when defending, and where when I'm trying to score.

All in all, I need desperate help with actually playing the game well. (Also, you should assume my luck is poor to average. When a 2+ roll is all that is needed to win a match or tie it in the last turn, I will always roll a 1.)

Martyn

[Deathwing]

I'd keep those DE Blitzers just a little further in from the sidelines!
Sorry Martyn, couldn't resist...
-Woody

[martynq]

I'd keep those DE Blitzers just a little further in from the sidelines!
Sorry Martyn, couldn't resist...

Thanks Woody. Of course, you're excused giving me advice until our game is over. By then, I suspect you will be feeling truly sorry for me and will have no problems helping.

I thought what I was doing was a good idea though. Putting a TZ on the ball carrier with one of my few players with Block.

Shows what I know about positional play!

Martyn

[NightDragon]

I have won 90% of my games with these boys. Basic formula for success;
1. Score as quickly as you can. Keep your thrower deep with some protection. Get 4 players forward as far as possible. Dodge out the front line spreading players out to make them dodge out of your tackle zones. Next go either long bomb it to one of your forward players or short pass and handoff. TD!
2. In defence use your blitzers and witches to get stuck in and break up any huddle as soon as possible. Once the ball is loose head for the end zone. If you can't stop the huddle then get players around it forcing them to take you out or dodge out. This is why I was saying in another thread to give linemen block and dodge as they are then very hard to get off the pitch. They will then panic and try and throw the ball which you will intercept enough of.

Basically spread out and keep dodging out making them waste blitz's and dodge. Also be aggressive on blitz, its amazing how many times when you chance it, it goes your way.

Best of luck. Laters DD.

Remember with AG4 these boys can throw catch and dodge easily so don't be cautious.

[GalakStarscraper]

Martyn,

Don't know if you noticed by there is a tactics library under the Reference section of Blood-bowl.net ... have you checked out the Elf articles?

Galak

[martynq]

Don't know if you noticed by there is a tactics library under the Reference section of Blood-bowl.net ... have you checked out the Elf articles?

I had read them, but (unless I've missed something) they tell me which skills to take rather than how to get the SPPs to actually be able to take the skills. I suppose I'm looking for detailed diagrams of what one is hoping to achieve and I haven't seen any.

Martyn

[martynq]

I have won 90% of my games with these boys.

Oh that would be lovely.

Basic formula for success;
1. Score as quickly as you can. Keep your thrower deep with some protection. Get 4 players forward as far as possible. Dodge out the front line spreading players out to make them dodge out of your tackle zones. Next go either long bomb it to one of your forward players or short pass and handoff. TD!

The problem is actually scoring at all. Usually I find that I can get no more than 2 players forwards as far as possible, with 3 or 4 stuck somewhere near the LoS, and 1 ball carrier at the back (and the remaining 3 KO'd or worse). Also I never managed to produce a big enough gap to fit the 4 players through. It always seems to require at least one dodge each, and the second or third player fails his.

Basically spread out and keep dodging out making them waste blitz's and dodge. Also be aggressive on blitz, its amazing how many times when you chance it, it goes your way.

Best of luck. Laters DD.

Remember with AG4 these boys can throw catch and dodge easily so don't be cautious.

Nope they fail it all the time. The PBEM BB tool hates me and rolls 1s just to be spiteful (at least that's how it feels).

Martyn

[Deathwing]

The PBEM BB tool hates me and rolls 1s just to be spiteful (at least that's how it feels).

Martyn

Well.... my early 1 last turn was followed by an early skull this turn...

*...Deathwing sits twiddling his thumbs waiting for the equalising score....*

[Deathwing]

Ok, it hates you. (Martyn just rolled another 1 on a gfi to score...)

[martynq]

OK Tom (or Galak, if that's what I'm supposed to refer to you as here ), I've done what you suggested and looked at the tactics on your website. I now have some more specific questions:

1. How do I put players into the oppositions half but ensure that one cannot be reached? I guess this means putting some sort of cage round them, but can't my opponent just blitz one of the players in the cage and then continue moving until he's next to the supposed unreachable player.

All I've done previously was get as many players through a gap as possible (usually 3) and spread them out as much as I have movement to allow me to do, and hope that one only has 1TZ on him, so I can blitz it away and get the ball to him.

2. How do I keep the ball out of blitz range. I'm assuming that my opponent can make gfi rolls without difficulty (unlike myself), so that means I need to be 9 squares back from a blitzer (with MA7). This makes the gap between my ball carrier and my other players very large and it looks very difficult to be able to get to quick pass range. (I again assume that my players can't manage 3+ rolls - I don't have a thrower on my dark elves yet.)

Cheers, and sorry for being much more useless at this game than the rest of you!

Martyn

P.S. Woody have you sent the file back to me? Getting this debacle over as quickly as possible would be good.

[Stav]

always depends on your opposition (team, players left, skills etc)

It's sometimes a good idea to free 3-4 people in different areas of the map to try to make it harder for him to cover them all, remember u can cover most of the pitch in one turn with some of your players. Leave your own tacklezones about so he cant get his strong low agility players to your free men etc
And don't forget, your line-elves have agility 4, that's a 2+ roll for most dodges and 3+ for the less usual ones where he manages to block your way out

You probaby have the fastest team on the pitch so usually best they can do is put your guys in 1 easy tackle zone.

give yourself a few options, don't concentrate around one approach, coz then he can cover it easily.

And as I said b4, don't be scared to block his players. Dodge one guy free and make him assist someone else for a 2-dice your choice block (avoid guys with block) Only dodge teh guys that u have nothing better to do with out of the way, do something useful with the rest. Use your whole team, not just the scorers.

as for setting them up on the pitch, experiment. Most tactics guides assume u have 11 players whch is unlikely for most matches when u first start a wood elf team. Just remember that when u r setting up first, it is unlikely you will be able to stop him with your setup, so instead leave players behind to help stop him after he's gone through your initial defence. (2 guys in the wide zones are not going to stop anyone, having another 4 for support the next team might tho)

Also watch out for play switches... if u move your whole team to stop his main drive, he'll more than likely just get the ball to the other side and u'll be left in teh lurch.

As far as luck goes, well... best advice I can give you is to roleplay your team :)
name your team members specifically and they will start doing what they are best at. In our local league even things such as "Mr Grey" (unpainted miniature) seem to make him do better, whereas some names like "Imhotep" for a mummy are obviously doomed as he never managed to kill anyone :)

anyway
good luck etc
Stav

[GalakStarscraper]

Rolling 2 players downfield is usually enough.

The strategy I use with my Human team is similar. Blitzer knocks a hole in the wide zone for which I feed 2 catchers through. Depending on the defense set up I then either throw more player through this hole to firm up my set up on the other side or I use the players to cage around the thrower.

Turn 2: Use your blitzes and blocks to free up the ball handling catcher OR if the thrower still has the ball .. free up one of the catchers. Run catcher in for score, or roll the thrower out of his backfield cage to throw the pass to the now open catcher who runs it in.

The key here is to make sure you have two player pentrate deep enough on the opening drive to be with GFI scoring distance.

If the dice hate you though, there isn't a heck of a lot of strategy I can give you.

Oh and also for defense/offensive set ups did you check the generic strategies for fast teams? They had some off/def diagrams.

Galak

[sean newboy]

Sounds like a problem protecting the ball carrier? Are u using a loose cage formation (i.e. as many empty squares in the ball carriers tz), this will make it very hard to even hit the ball carrier?

[martynq]

Sounds like a problem protecting the ball carrier?

Yep, that's probably one of my problems.

Are u using a loose cage formation (i.e. as many empty squares in the ball carriers tz), this will make it very hard to even hit the ball carrier?

Err, no I'm not using that formation. I do not even know what the loose cage formation is!

The only cages I know about are the following two:

X.X
.B.
X.X

and

XXX
XBX
XXX

where X is a player and B is the ball carrier. Can you give me a diagram of the loose cage?

I usually try to keep my ball carrier deep in my half, pretty much on his own, then move, pass, catch, move, hand-off, move, score in the next turn. (With any luck only needs three 2+ rolls to succeed.) My goal is to keep the ball carrier out of blitz reach... though I don't always count correctly and opponents seem to be far more lucky on go-for-its than I do. (I basically stopped using gfi except when it was absolutely necessary, as whenever I went for it in other situations, the player would fall over and miss the next game with a serious injury. )

Cheers,

Martyn

[NightDragon]

Your opposition can effectively do only 1 thing when you have the ball out of a choice of 2, especially if it is slow moving. If he attempts to get at your thrower then he will not be able to cover your catchers, so get your thrower deep in your own half with a few players to protect him just in case. Remember to dodge your players out of the front line but covering gaps, even put one just behind their front line. The best thing for him to do is try to hit your cathchers which is why 3 is better than 2 up there because he will not take all out. My team has always been very lucky hence my high win rate. It has always got profile increases normally to my blitzers strength, movement is common and my thrower has an AG of 6 not that this is needed. Like all teams though no matter how good on paper you need the luck.