Are Chaos Dwarves too good? (Tournaments Only)

[Old Man Draco]

I know I allways have trouble with CD cause of that damned tackle skill and my tendency to roll 1's on a dodge roll all the time. Not mutch rerolls cause in the beginning you can't afford them et voila (he that was French)

[Robotorz]

Chaosdwarfs have anything exept for TTM 1 turn Scores

Can score rather easily in 2 Turns.
Have a hard LOS
Have good & fast Blitzers
Cheap Lineman
Cheap Rerolls
and with 1 or 2 doubles or stat increases you are set

[neoliminal]

My take on why they are winning:

Fouling.

With cheap linemen who are relatively useless for anythnig else and kick butt blockers who are going to knock someone down, this team was built to foul.

So you think that fouling was nerfed? Not at all. The benefits still outway the costs when all you are risking is a hobgoblin in exchange for opponents position players.

I played my final game against the Chaos Dwarf team in Canada at two different touranaments (both times the winner was going to win the whole tournament). They are my current bane team to play against or more accurately the coach is.

I played Orcs and he still took me off the pitch. He's a damn fine player, and the Chaos Dwarves suit his style of play. Which, BTW, is fouling.

[noodle]

Chaosdwarfs have anything exept for TTM 1 turn Scores

Can score rather easily in 2 Turns.
Have a hard LOS
Have good & fast Blitzers
Cheap Lineman
Cheap Rerolls
and with 1 or 2 doubles or stat increases you are set.

... But don't have AG4, surehands, an abundance of speed WITH agility OR toughness, a natural thrower, access to agility skills or a hugely overpowered bug guy/star player...

Chaos Dwarfs have never really lit up the league in Sheffield. Once the Apache Injuns reached the final of the Blood Bowl, and on occasions they have been reliable top 4 in the league - but lack the speed and agility to put in BIG wins, so don't get the SPPs as fast, or dominate the league...

In fact CDs are 9th in our league of races (there are 25 in the league so far - some experimental) behind wood leves, chaos, high elves and skaven to name a few.[/quote]

[SBG]

I played many teams, but the one I prefer is the CD!

Like somebody said before, with a few stats increase, you're in business!

I have an AG 5 Hobbo with Nerves of Steel and a BC with Catch: my passing game is doing just fine !

Fred

[DoubleSkulls]

Chaos Dwarfs have never really lit up the league in Sheffield. Once the Apache Injuns reached the final of the Blood Bowl, and on occasions they have been reliable top 4 in the league - but lack the speed and agility to put in BIG wins, so don't get the SPPs as fast, or dominate the league...

I was specifically talking about tournaments - not leagues.

[DoubleSkulls]

Well I've just generated my own stats - this is all the NAF results currently submitted.

This matches Bevan's input (and the NAF rankings) its pretty obvious that CD's & Undead do much better than anyone else.

Code: Select all

              Pld   W    D    L    W%     D%     L%     For  Ag   Net
Chaos Dwarves  95   58   7    30   0.61   0.07   0.32   160  100  60   
Undead         155  84   28   43   0.54   0.18   0.28   235  171  64   
Skaven         198  88   30   80   0.44   0.15   0.40   397  336  61   
Amazons        63   28   7    28   0.44   0.11   0.44   87   89   -2   
Lizardmen      97   42   18   37   0.43   0.19   0.38   157  154  3    
Orc            250  103  41   106  0.41   0.16   0.42   314  353  -39  
Norse          89   37   13   39   0.42   0.15   0.44   121  137  -16  
Wood Elves     137  54   21   62   0.39   0.15   0.45   267  263  4    
Dwarves        146  56   27   63   0.38   0.18   0.43   193  217  -24  
Dark Elves     99   38   12   49   0.38   0.12   0.49   159  178  -19  
Humans         157  59   31   67   0.38   0.20   0.43   234  240  -6   
High Elves     73   26   17   30   0.36   0.23   0.41   147  149  -2   
Goblins        24   8    1    15   0.33   0.04   0.62   25   45   -20  
Chaos          60   19   8    33   0.32   0.13   0.55   76   102  -26  
Halflings      35   6    5    24   0.17   0.14   0.69   38   76   -38  

Break down vs each race  
              Pld   W    D    L    W%     D%     L%     For  Ag   Net
Goblins        1    1    0    0    1.00   0.00   0.00   2    0    2    
Norse          4    4    0    0    1.00   0.00   0.00   8    1    7    
Orc            16   14   0    2    0.88   0.00   0.12   29   10   19   
Humans         6    5    0    1    0.83   0.00   0.17   13   3    10   
Amazons        4    3    0    1    0.75   0.00   0.25   7    2    5    
Halflings      4    3    0    1    0.75   0.00   0.25   8    1    7    
Dwarves        8    5    2    1    0.62   0.25   0.12   12   9    3    
Undead         9    5    0    4    0.56   0.00   0.44   15   11   4    
Skaven         9    5    0    4    0.56   0.00   0.44   15   13   2    
Chaos Dwarves  14   6    2    6    0.43   0.14   0.43   15   15   0    
Wood Elves     10   4    2    4    0.40   0.20   0.40   23   19   4    
Chaos          3    1    0    2    0.33   0.00   0.67   3    3    0    
High Elves     3    1    0    2    0.33   0.00   0.67   5    8    -3   
Lizardmen      4    1    1    2    0.25   0.25   0.50   5    5    0    

[Deathwing]

The Orc stat there is *huge*. There's the old adage that Orcs are forgiving, solid, relatively easy to play and come with the box set to consider. Let's face it, they are far and away the most played team overall.

Now there's no way that on paper (at whatever format) CDs should be beating Orcs 14 out of 16, and indeed I'd lay *BIG* money that (with coaching ability being equal) there's no way that should happen. I'm no great shakes as an Orc coach (although fairly experienced), but there's no way I'd lose 14 of 16 against even the top CD coaches, let alone a coach of my level with just the edge of a 'superior roster'. 88% win record against Orcs? O...K...

Conclusion? No where near enough data yet....
Theories and speculation.

[Mestari]

Well I've just generated my own stats - this is all the NAF results currently submitted.

How did you generate these? Did you go through each tourney one by one? I doubt...

[Mestari]

And I have to agree with Deathwing that the orc stat seems really peculiar - a good sign of an insufficient data set.

[Longshot]

Only lucky players play CD...

No, in fact, this is a good team at 100TR, 110 TR and 100 TR with stars.
Not a lot of teams are like that.

Their weak is the hobgob but i am not sure that they are overpowered...

As Woddy say it, for the moment ,it is only speculation.
And good coaches that makes the difference.

[DoubleSkulls]

How did you generate these? Did you go through each tourney one by one? I doubt...

I wrote a Java program that Regexs the results page on the NAF site and then sums the results together. I've got complete breakdowns for every tournament by race if you are interested. I originally did this just after the BB.

Although the sample is small for the racial breakdown that's 839 games in total which is much better - I don't know enough stats to be able to work out how reliable it is.

Regardless the more tourneys there are the more accurate these stats should become, but CDs have a long was to fall.

[ljm]

The Orc stat there is *huge*. There's the old adage that Orcs are forgiving, solid, relatively easy to play and come with the box set to consider. Let's face it, they are far and away the most played team overall.

Maybe their popularity is the reason. A larger percentage of inexperienced coaches choose to field orcs in a tournament when compared to chaos dwarves.

ljm

[noodle]

Like chaos in Warhammer

And they come in the box....

AS far as the stats go, I still think its WHO is playing the chaos dwarf team, rather than the team themselves...

[Mestari]

Nice one, ian!