Diving Catch & Completition

[Toby]

Hi Toby, if you really think that skill-combination are all that
important for BB I feel very sorry for you. The combinations
were the balancing problem of BB in the past (and in some
issues are still a problem and just complicate the game with the
need for extra rules).

I know you are very fond of extra rules, but I prefer to keep it
simple.

seems like i am not alone this time because "one skill per action" is what everybody hates in 4th edition.

And yes i like Skill Combos. My faforite is Tackle, Diving Tackle, Shadowing. Can't wait to use that !!!

[Toby]

roll #3 Propability not to re-enter the tackle zone = 6/8

Where do you get that 6/8?

-- Christer

XXXO
XXOX
XOXX
OXXX


Diagram shows the top right quarter;
O1 = Starting Point
O2 = roll #1 = 0/8 to leave TZ
O3 = roll #2 = 32/64 to leave TZ
O4 = roll #3 = 96/128 to leave TZ

? im not sure...

[DoubleSkulls]

After the 1st scatter you'll either be in a corner 4/8 or a side 4/8.

From a corner (50%)
1/8 leaves 1 chance of it coming back (e.g. 1,1,8)
2/8 straight out leaving 2/8 chances of it coming back
2/8 angled out (e.g. 1-3) with 3 chances of coming back.
1/8 is back to the player meaning always able to catch
2/8 along the line - leaving 5/8 catchable

From a side (50%)
1/8 back to catcher
1/8 straight out, 3 chances of it coming back
2/8 angled out, 2 chances of it coming back
2/8 to corners, 5/8 of coming back (1 to catcher)
2/8 to other sides 5/8 of coming back (1 to catcher)

I can't be bothered accurately counting it up but ~50% sounds right.

Ian

[GalakStarscraper]

Time to earn that Numba Cruncha title:

Inaccurate pass calc (step-by-step):

First the table:

Code: Select all

3333333
3abcba3
3bzyzb3
3cyXyc3
3bzyzb3
3abcba3

Okay then we map it out roll by roll
1st scatter odds of going to:
Y: 50%
Z: 50%

2nd scatter odds of going:
Y to X: 12.5%
Y to Z: 25%
Y to Y: 25%
Y to B: 25%
Y to C: 12.5%
Z to X: 12.5%
Z to Y: 25%
Z to B: 25%
Z to C: 25%
Z to A: 12.5%

and then the 3rd roll ... odds of going:
X to TZ: 100%
Y to X: 12.5%
Y to TZ (Y or Z): 50%
Y to B,C,A: 37.5%
Z to X: 12.5%
Z to TZ (Y): 25%
Z to B,C,A: 62.5%
A to TZ (Z): 12.5%
A to B,3: 87.5%
B to TZ (Y or Z): 25%
B to A,C,3: 75%
C to TZ (Y or Z): 37.5%
C to B,3: 62.5%

Okay once you have all the possible paths mapped then to calculate any given probability add up the sum of the probability of all the possible path to the result you are looking for:

Sooooo .... Odds that an inaccurate path getting back to the original spot for a catch roll:
Three possible paths:
Y to Z to X: .5*.25*.125 = 1.6%
Y to Y to X: .5*.25*.125 = 1.6%
Z to Y to X: .5*.25*.125 = 1.6% for a total probability of 4.7%

Odds of an inaccurate pass making it to an adjacent square that Diving Catch could be used:
Ten possible paths:
Y to X to TZ: .5*.125*1 = 6.3%
Z to X to TZ: .5*.125*1 = 6.3%
Y to Z to TZ: .5*.25*.25 = 3.1%
Y to Y to TZ: .5*.25*.5 = 6.3%
Z to Y to TZ: .5*.25*.5 = 6.3%
Y to B to TZ: .5*.25*.25 = 3.1%
Y to C to TZ: .5*.125*.375 = 2.3%
Z to A to TZ: .5*.125*.125 = 0.8%
Z to B to TZ: .5*.25*.25 = 3.1%
Z to C to TZ: .5*.25*.375 = 4.7% for a total probability of 42.2%

So that should be a full breakdown on the probability:

A Wood Elf with Catch will catch an inaccurate pass: 4.17% (4.7%*88.9%)

A Wood Elf with Diving Catch will catch an inaccurate pass: 31.3% (46.9%*66.7%)

A Wood Elf with Diving Catch and Catch will catch an inaccurate pass: 41.7% (46.9%*88.9%)

I don't think there are any errors here ... this should be the full break down ... so based on this I don't think that Diving Catch is worthless if you don't have the greatest passer ... he'll catch the ball almost 8 times more than a player that had Catch as his first skill for inaccurate passes.

Galak

[Dragoonkin]

Oro...

[wesleytj]

Wow, I was starting to think I'd never agree with Toby on here, but I will defend him by saying that combining skills is one of the best parts of BB. The whole point of the game (to me) and the primary factor of enjoyment is building up teams from loser rookies to talented pros. And the primary way to do that is to build up the indivdual players.

What made that great is that each player was greater than the sum of their parts (skills) because you could combine them for added effect. IE you could have a guy with block and a guy with dodge, and a guy with leap, and they'd all be useful, but a guy with all 3 that he could use together would be awesome. Dodge out of a tackle zone on a blitz, leap over a guy in the way, and use block to knock down the guy with the ball.

It seemed mega lame to have a guy suddenly forget how to hit just because he had to reroll his dodge to get there to make the hit in the first place. And what's the point of having a whole bunch of skills you can't use? I mean why take pro when you know that the chances of you NOT using some other skill somewhere else in the turn meant that you'd never get to pro? Or why take multiple block if it suddenly means that the hit you make will be without tackle and block and mighty blow and so on? (Not that I ever took multi block anyway, it's just an example) It frequently meant that taking a new skill was in essence taking AWAY another skill. And that's about as much fun as a kick to the groin.

Plus it was a game balance nightmare. You were giving away handicap based on all these star player points that were clearly not as valuable as they used to be. Some guys had traits that always worked in combination (like the trollslayer, dauntless, frenzy, and thick skull were ALWAYS going while other people had to choose between their skills) while others didn't and couldn't get them.

I love playing BB...but I totally refused to play the game while that rule was in effect. I didn't play the game for over a year for that very reason (among a few others, but that was definitely the main one). Trust me, the occasional extra questions about how skills work together is DEFINITELY worth it. Plus after you've played a while you know all that stuff and it's just second nature.

Blood Bowl is, at its core, a simple game. Not nearly as complex as, say, Warhammer, with incidental charges, and overrun rules, and lance formation frontage, and the difference between a break test and a panic test, and 10 special rules for every army, and so on.

The game is already MUCH simpler without cards. That took away a LOT of newbie questions. Deal with the skills, it's not that bad.

[wesleytj]

And yes i like Skill Combos. My faforite is Tackle, Diving Tackle, Shadowing. Can't wait to use that !!!

See, that's one of the OTHER things that sucked about ospa. That would still have worked, because it wasn't in your action. It's defensive stuff. Tons of inconsistencies.

Anyway, back when minos could mutate, I always wanted to make one with Stunty and Break Tackle. Think of the possibilities of THAT! Dodge anywhere, and hit anybody anytime.

And that's not even mentioning the MODELLING! Just a head with horns, real stubby legs, real short stocky body...how awesome would THAT be?

Yes I know I'm sick and depraved.