New Idea (new thread)

[Thadrin]

<rambling opinionated thought that will likely piss people off>
Y'know, my colleague from accross the Baltic has a point. This idea has just grown too complex for its own good. The discussion has spawned some stuff which I think would make great tweaks, but this whole idea has become so complicated - I'm certainly confused by exactly what changes are on the table now - that we're going to have to completely relearn how to play the game. This is not to mention the fact that the mechanics of the game are changed so radically by the proposal that the delicate balance becomes an issue.

Now, I still like the addition of a -1 ball handling modifier for having the claws mutation.
I still like the idea of Piling on giving a reroll of the AV rather than a modifier.
Otherwise, I'm happy with things as is, and I don't think what started out two months ago as an interesting and daring plan has been beaten into an unrecognisable mulch of new ideas. Testing may prove me wrong, but too be honest I think BB is in a pretty good place as it is and this change - whether its a serious proposal or not (and ANY idea coming from someone of Chet's position in the BB community is going to get seen as having a strong possibility of entering the rulebook - whether he likes it or not) - is too much.
</rambling opinionated thought that will likely piss people off>

[DoubleSkulls]

THE RULES ARE INCOMPLETE, UNCLEAR AND HIGHLY IMPROVABLE.

I disagree. The rules are generally very good, deal with most situations and, once you've learnt the basics are easy for most people to understand. In my experience the thing that causes most problems for novices (and some experienced players) is working out all the assists for blocking.

Why do I think they are good? Because I generally enjoy playing the game and it often becomes a good fun contest between me and my opponent. I don't have to spend half a hour a turn trying to remember all the rules. I do get emotionally attached to my star players. How can I forget Snaga, Mordor Utd's star orc thrower (+ST, +AG ) ? This provides good continuity.

Ian

PS Its a good excuse to go to the pub and drink beer in good company too.

[Acerak]

While I understand where you're coming from, Teemu, I have to disagree. Isolate the AV and INJ skills from the mix and take fouling out of the equation if you'd like. Here's what you have left:

* Piling On: AV re-roll with a bonus
* Claw: 3D6 mechanic
* RSC: INJ roll mechanic
* MB: +1 to AV

Now all of these would stack. If you haven't noticed, they do NOT currently stack. This is a problem with the current rules regardless of how you cut it. And if you suddenly allowed all of the current skills to stack, you'd have to fudge the numbers BIG time, because there ain't no way Joe Commish is going to allow a Claw/POn/MB player to team up for +6/+1.

I think the 3D6 Claw suggestion is actually the best one in the bunch. It gives the same results, it's colorful, it's different, AND it combines with Piling On in a way that the current rules don't. But that's my opinion. You feel the idea is becoming too complicated. That's fine. Others have made comments elsewhere that this is a complicated game, and that's ok, too. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

-Chet

[Pink Horror]

I'm sorry Acerak. The one idea of yours that I like the most, the change to Claw, is getting bashed like its some horrendous breach of Blood Bowl tradition. Acerak, instead of trying to make this whole change in one package, can we try an intermediate step, by making stacking work a little better but leaving the rest of the rules alone? Here's some compromises I think you could make to help your cause:

* Piling On: The size bonus will be tougher to get people to accept than the armour re-roll. You can ditch it without losing stacking ability. To make up for it, let other skills like Mighty Blow be used on the re-roll. This would essentially become +1 for being a Big Guy.

* Claw: I like the 3D6 / 2D6 mechanic for Claw. If no one else does, maybe +2 armour, -1 to ball handlilng would do.

* RSC: You were willing to sacrifice this before. Let's replace it with a mutation that allows for more modeling creativity.

* MB: This skill stays as is. Mighty Blow and Stunty will be the only injury mods left, so you can deal with them in the following year as you slowly mold Blood Bowl into your image.

* Very Long Legs: Change name to Very Long Limbs, but don't mess with the rules yet. I'd like some players with long arms.

Then, let them all stack. The best you can get is +3 to armour, or +1 to injury. That isn't so bad.



Pink Horror

[wesleytj]

I would like to state that I think your claw idea is cool as well, Chet, with or without the ballhandling mod.

I think your piling on and mighty blow need some work though.

[Zombie]

Frankly, i don't understand the obsession to make every skill a reroll all of a sudden. Aren't there enough rolls made already? If you want to aim for simplicity, it's not the number of skills that should be brought down, it's the number of rolls. Don't make it worse than it already is.

[Thadrin]

the 2 of 3d6 rule is a neat idea I would certainly not object to...but the -1 ball handling thing is just so characterful. I imagine most of you boys on the other side of the pond have tried to catch a football one handed at some stage: not easy is it?