First Elf skill dodge or block ??

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 12:53 pm

I play High Elves, and I tend to get the first 4 line-elf block, after that they get dodge. This way you can use 3 elves on the LOS with block on your receiving turn AND on the kicking turn. My blitzers will NOT go in the LOS, because I develop them to have dodge and sidestep very quickly. This way, they can fill all the gaps in defence, and run into enemy territory very quickly. With 4 line-elves with block, you (almost) always can put 3 on the LOS (they still tend to miss a match now and then, that's why you need 4). The other's can have dodge, as it costs less TRR's to have them in the clear.

BTW, my guard line-elf (first double after ten games) was only good for one game (against humans). The next one (against dwarves) he died horribly, and because my important Catcher got a niggling (which he failed both times since he has it!) I already used my apoth. Damn those Dwarves!!! Especially since they gave another line-elf MA-1.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 1:34 pm

Korhil wrote:Dwalves/Chaos Dwalves played by a good coach should beat an Elf Team until the Elves Rating is quite alot higher.
---Korhil

That's just not true. Elves have one great advantage over Dwarves - they are much faster. On offense you should be able to score relatively easily - by keeping the ball away from his players and stretching the defence so you can isolate one section to score through. If you get unlucky and get some double 1's you'll fail, but in the normal course of things you should score.

If worst comes to the worst you can always chuck the ball downfield and turn it into a foot race.

If you do take dodge - and this is key to my argument - you'll never make power teams turnover as you can't get sufficient pressure on the ball carrier.

The only way you'll stop Dwarves scoring in 8 turns is by either getting lucky or bashing them around enough to open up the ball carrier. Dark and High Elves both have enough armour that this isn't pure suicide - but you need quite a few blocks to make it work.

Dodging out of the way and only leaving a blitz available to your opponent will keep your players alive but wont win many games. Getting stuck in will.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 1:38 pm

Remco wrote:I play High Elves, and I tend to get the first 4 line-elf block

That's pretty much the policy I've got myself

Remco wrote: BTW, my guard line-elf (first double after ten games) was only good for one game (against humans). The next one (against dwarves) he died horribly, and because my important Catcher got a niggling (which he failed both times since he has it!) I already used my apoth. Damn those Dwarves!!! Especially since they gave another line-elf MA-1.

My current HE team has been very lucky. 2 guards & +ST out of the 1st 6 line elf skill rolls

.

Don't use your apoth on failed niggle rolls - you have to expect at least 2 casualties during the game and that's a 75% chance of an SI or death - so you'll start entering a negative cycle of too few players and not enough money.

Ian

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 3:19 pm

Hmm

If you dont need block to make a Block, then doesn;t the same arguement hold true that you dont need dodge to make a dodge???

For all intensive purposes dodge is probably help you on offence, but then Elves are good at that anyway. where they fall short is on defence. Dodge is useless against dwarves anyway, and the theory about dodging out of their tackle zones, so they have to use a blitz to get a block in, is jusy playing into their hands. if it takes them all 8 turns to score then they have won the match. dwarves are built to win games 2-1, by dominating the game with 9/10 ths ball possession. By building a team exclusively with dodge, you've done nothing to stoip that process.

you need to have some sort of balance between block and dodge. Three Blockers for the inevitable LOS start is a must.

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:01 am

If you want Block so much and to be able to hit people why do you bother playing Elves?
Play Humans that only get General skills and take your Block... or take Dwalves, Chaos or Orcs that do hit people.

If you do take dodge - and this is key to my argument - you'll never make power teams turnover as you can't get sufficient pressure on the ball carrier.

But Dodge directly increases pressure on the Ball Carrier because you can Dodge past/arround the front line and get to the Ball Carrier. With Block your just intending to sit there and take hits?!
Its going to be one of you Blitzers with Block, Dodge, Tackle, Strip Ball that will be hitting the Ball Carrier, not a LineElf, but if they have Dodge they will be able to get in for Assists, or canceling them at least.

Me thinks this whole Thread comes down to play Style...

On a side note about Guards, my current team has 3 Guard LineElves, So I'm lacking quite a bit of both Block & Dodge. At least people seam to aggree that you never pass the chance to give a LineElf Guard by giving him Leader or some crap like that.

---Korhil[/quote]

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 9:36 am

Having been quite succesful with especially Woodies (and lately with High elves too ) I think I'll throw in my opinion also:

Elves have excellent position players - mobility is the key.

Therefore the default aim of line-elves is Block/dodge. Special skills are mostly for the position players.

Stat increases and doubles are the thing that changes this. AG->Pass Blocker(/Leaper), MA->dodge next->build a surprise runner/catcher as he blends into the line-elves, ST->Block next
If the first skill is doubles, I'd take Guard most of the time. A great help for popping the cages (in addition to the AG5 Wardancer that you have, don't you?). Guard player takes dodge next, sidestep might be tempting after that.

But which one take first - block or dodge? Both are really useful skills, and preference depends (as have been noted) on your playing style, and on how "tackle-happy" your league is.

Somebody said that Block gives you overall more SPP's: nonsense, unless you don't plan on using the line-elves with dodge for scoring. Dodge is the way to get skills faster, but the teams need a few line-elves with block.

I prefer a mixture. I take whatever feels right for the team at the moment. Block would probably be the first one, even though with elves I play "pansy elf ball" in the worst meaning of that uttering.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 12:40 pm

Korhil wrote:If you want Block so much and to be able to hit people why do you bother playing Elves?

Because it works, and I get to pull off great plays too.

One of the other players in my league (haggislad) has a well developed Dark Elf team http://www.irwilliams.com/ecbbl/team_viewer.php?id=6. Its the sort of team I'd advocate for any Dark Elf coach. Its a very difficult team to break down.

His blitzers went either Dodge/Tackle or Tackle/Dodge and his line elves have mainly gone Block then either tackle or dodge.

Ian

Godder · Post by **Godder** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:53 am

Playing Wood Elves, as I do, I took mainly Dodge for my first skills. I've found that this has been very helpful both on Offense and on Defense, since I can break up cages and the like with much more regularity by simply running around for assists, and then blitzing with a Wardancer...

Mind you, I also rolled ST for one of my LineElves after the first game, so he makes a pretty effective blitzer as well

.