Expert BB-moved from vault

[Dark Lord (retired)]

These three stats could be combined in different ways as the basis for a variety of feats. For example, you might ask a player to roll 2D6 and score under the combined totals of his AG and IN.

Well I agree with most of what you say and I like it. I just have a problem with rolling 2D6 under or over a number.

[Joemanji]

Well I agree with most of what you say and I like it. I just have a problem with rolling 2D6 under or over a number.

To be honest, it doesn't feel great with me either.

How about this: to attempt a more difficult feat, a player must make more than one roll. For example, to make a 3-square leap, a player must make two AG rolls, or an AG roll and an IN roll. These would be two separate D6 rolls, though you could of course roll them simultaneously.

The probabilities for these concurrent rolls would be slightly different to rolling under a value on a 2D6, but it is still along a similar line.

[Pink Horror]

I think you can add another layer of sophistication to BB with only slight changes. And that is what, isn't it, to add one more layer, not drown ourselves under a hundred?

I would prefer a game that is nothing like Blood Bowl apart from the appearance of the minis and the football-field board. No Blitz action, a different turn system, some different rules for the game we are simulating (kicks or something), different dice, different counters, different injuries, different cards, hexes instead of squares, different humanoids for players, different fluff, different skills, different stats, a different league system. A football will be involved, and there will be orcs, but that's about what I want.

I've seen a couple different versions of this. There are the two games made by alternate sculpters. There is that recent kids' game. Then we have old Blood Bowl, and not much else. I can at least pretend right now to think further than a set of house rules for Blood Bowl, right?

I think the 'random player order' could take away a lot from the strategy if it was always like that.

It would take away from Blood Bowl strategy, but we'd find a way to add something new to replace it. I do believe that the difference between a novice player and a decent player is optimizing player order. That segment of the learning curve will disappear with my change. Players will have to become good at planning a turn that could work with many possible orders instead.

Though we are making Blood Bowl more complex, I would like to see the maximum time needed for one player action to decrease. This would probably mean that a move-and-block action ends after the block, and so forth. Blood Bowl's pretty fast as it, so this could be tough.

[Joemanji]

Sorry dude, but I can't say that any of what you have said appeals to me. This thread is, after all, entitled "expert Blood Bowl", not "expert-completely-new-game". We are here on a BB forum, discussing BB every day/week etc. I like BB, both as it is and how it could be. A completely ew system you say? What has that got to do with this board?

Talking about how BB could be developed and made more sophisticated? Now that is something that I find interesting. I know that you have a keen mind PH, and I'm sure any game you developed would have merit. After 18 years of playtesting it might even be as fun as BB.

[Munkey]

I'd rather play a more sophisticated version of BB too rather than an entirely new Fantasy Football system, but this thread seems to be treading a fine line, after all we are discussing different mechanics and new stats. If it turns out better than what we have and retains the BB 'feel' I guess that would be a good thing.

I think we'd need to keep the core races though, more than just Orcs, although i wouldn't much mind if some of the 'Warhammer' positions like Witch Elves and Trollslayers were dropped if it made for a better team. Maybe there ought to be a bit more discussion on the mechanics first though.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Well Torg actually named it "Expert Blood Bowl" not us.

We were discussing all new rules at the beginning.

[Munkey]

That's true, on a personal level i'd like to see it retain the BB fluff and feel but i'm not too bothered about the rules to achieve that aim if it's as fun to play.

On that note I ought to go away and come up with a few ideas so I can actually contribute something useful to this thread.

[Colin]

Actually the original idea was to discuss making a more complex game of BB, that's why I named the thread Expert BB, I had thrown out the idea of combining some aspects of 2ed (stats) and 3ed. I guess if there are those who aren't interested in developing a more complex game of BB and just want to make their own FF game, why not just start a new thread? I could move the posts dealing with the subject into a thread titled, "New Fantasy Football game discussion" and you all can go from there. I think there are still some people who are interested in the more complex game of BB idea.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Actually the original idea was to discuss making a more complex game of BB, that's why I named the thread Expert BB, I had thrown out the idea of combining some aspects of 2ed (stats) and 3ed. I guess if there are those who aren't interested in developing a more complex game of BB and just want to make their own FF game, why not just start a new thread? I could move the posts dealing with the subject into a thread titled, "New Fantasy Football game discussion" and you all can go from there. I think there are still some people who are interested in the more complex game of BB idea.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[gken1]

How about taking a game system like GURPS and making the game work from there? Gurps uses the 3d6 for most skill rolls and uses hex map.

You could translate skills etc....

throwing an idea out there.

[Joemanji]

As mentioned in the General Chat forum, I think an expanded Injury Table, allowing players to contract Bonehead, Really Stupid etc. would be desriable.

[Azurus]

As mentioned in the General Chat forum, I think an expanded Injury Table, allowing players to contract Bonehead, Really Stupid etc. would be desriable.

Damn, you beat me to it.

Also, I'd like to see MNG removed completely. In current BB rules it serves long-term balance, but if we're going to have a new system I'd prefer to try for on-pitch balance rather than need to resort to the MNGs. That's the sort of thing we should be looking to fix. (worth a try, eh?)

(Yes, removing MNGs was Nazgit's idea, but since he didn't reiterate that in his post just now, I thought I should)

[Pink Horror]

I would prefer a more realistic league system, which would include injuries that last beyond the current game. If we can allow death, MNG shouldn't pose a problem. It's not as bad as death. I don't see any point in complaining about MNG in a game that can remove players from your team permanently.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

What would you think about using money to affect injuries?

For instance your players can get chronic conditions (an expansion of niggling injuries), some would be more severe than others. These chronic conditions would cause the team to pay a fee (whether it be hiring a personal trainer for a one time fee) or a fee per game for medical expenses (leeches and whatnot). If the fee isn't paid then the player loses a stat point for that game, can't play, has to roll to play, or something equally problematic.

Although I love all these ideas flowing out, I think if we're in anyway serious about this we need a plan of attack. Otherwise the brainstorm will sputter out and this will die.

I think the first order of business is deciding what style to use. Whether it be rolling X number of dice against a target number and looking at the ratio of successes to failures. or doing a "check" by rolling a die under a stat level or skill rank.

Once we decide how we want the game to work we can decide what dice to base it on.

From there we can start on individual aspects of the game. Passing, injuries etc.

Sound good?

[Joemanji]

Agreed, but that might be a problem. I mean, don't we all disagree about that? Personally, I'd rather see a subtle change, with perhaps another stat or two, and the mechanism of making more than one stat check to achieve a more difficult feat.