Maximum characteristic increase

darksword · Post by **darksword** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:22 am

The LRB states that you can't increase characteristics more than two points. Does this include any increases from mutations? IE, if I have a gutter-runner with MA11 (!) from two rolls of 10 on the Star Player Roll Table, if I get a mutation will Very Long Legs increase my MA to 12?

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:41 am

Increase max up to 2 point (including Mutations).
So MA max for a gunter runner will ever be 11.

christer · Post by **christer** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:35 am

I've always been under the impression that VLL isn't a stat increase and that you indeed could get ma11 + VLL for a base movement of 12.

-- Christer

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:18 pm

Unless they changed the wording, it's very vague that 2, including mutations is the limit. It used to appear that the mutations were outside this little rule.

Christer, we play that way too but it's been pointed out to me on other boards that the intent (God I hate that word) was a max of 2 of any kind.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:36 pm

snotsngrots wrote:Unless they changed the wording, it's very vague that 2, including mutations is the limit. It used to appear that the mutations were outside this little rule.

Christer, we play that way too but it's been pointed out to me on other boards that the intent (God I hate that word) was a max of 2 of any kind.

Added it to the list ... Neo said the October Review has started so hopefully this one made it in in time to be officially clarified.

Good point guys. I'm not a Skaven man, so I didn't think about it before as its never come up in either of my leagues.

Galak

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:01 pm

Personnely I am not a fan of one turn TD's, but I would think that VLL is not a stat increase, therfore I agree with Christer, and it should be added, so it would be possible to get movement of 13 with a GR, heaven forbid.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:46 pm

VLL includes a stat increase, so gutter runners are limited to 11.

High & Mighty · Post by **High & Mighty** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:57 pm

Zombie wrote:VLL includes a stat increase, so gutter runners are limited to 11.

So in that case, if a player already has two MV upgrades, could they take VLL just to get the +1 to interception mod? And then later, should they lose a step due to aging, VLL would ensure their movement would not decrease.

Seems kind of awkward if you count VLL as a stat increase.

Coach Barry · Post by **Coach Barry** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:43 pm

I keep saying that Very long legs is way too powerful! It's better to have very long legs than a +1 movement bonus!! That's fu#&ing ridiculous!! Not only a skaven with a double gets the desired +1 MA but it also gets +1 on inerceptions!!! Why should this continue. Alter the VLL to ONLY give the +1 interception bonus, that makes sence. Boubles are easier to get than a ten with two dice, why should a trait be so powerfull that gives bonuses in two very important things in the game, oh and its for skaven and chaos only!! Please alter this skill and one turn TD will reduce almost to zero.

Coach Barry · Post by **Coach Barry** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:45 pm

Just to say I meant Doubles not Boubles!!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:29 pm

Actually, if you forget about one-turn scoring for a minute, then VLL is actually one of the worst mutations. +1MA isn't very good (i always pass it up on a double 5 except for MA9 and MA2 players), and +1 to intercept is almost totally useless (how many intercepts is he gonna make successfully anyway?)

One-turn scoring as a whole needs to be dealt with, but very long legs in itself is ok, albeit on the weak side.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:55 pm

Coach Barry wrote:Just to say I meant Doubles not Boubles!!

Did you know you could hit the "edit" button and just fix it?

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:46 am

VLL is great, that's sure but some others skills or Trait are powerfull, and we will not banish them all.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:10 am

Coach Barry wrote: Please alter this skill and one turn TD will reduce almost to zero.

Why do I think that Coach Barry here has lost to skaven too many times "because" of VLL?
It's easy to credit good results caused mainly by coaching skill to the team/skills/players he has.
I haven't seen any widespread concern about the VLL and that pretty much shows that in most leagues people can deal with the problem. No need to ask for rules to fix things that you can fix by improving your coaching.

But back to the main topic. I've considered it to be rather clear that VLL gives you a movement increase, which in turn are limited to 2 per player. Therefore players cannot increase their MA by three by taking VLL in addition to two movement increases.
Rules might not be entirely clear on this, so a clarification might be in place.

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:41 am

Zombie wrote: +1MA isn't very good (i always pass it up on a double 5 except for MA9 and MA2 players) .

How about the jump from 6 to 7 i find that worthwhile as well since it makes the 2 turn scorring possible without having to gfi.

Poul