Tournament competition suggestions

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:41 pm

Although I've said all along that one big individual tourney where player scores are somehow aggregated to produce an overall national winner, until now the opinion was entirely that there *must* be a team event.

I go away from TBB for 3 days, come back and all of a sudden the individual tourney is back in vogue!

Never let it be said that TBBers aren't fickle

In summary, my original idea was:

Everyone plays in one event registered against a country of their choice - I say that unlike Eurobowl, you can declare yourself for a given country even if you have played for another nation at Eurobowl, which means we can have English players filling in for other countries if needed and/or bribed enough by the invading countries

Coaches can ONLY play foreign coaches.

Top 8 unique teams per nation - the scores are aggregated to produce an overall winner. This can be in one of two ways, either by tournament points (whatever they may be) or by a 1/0.5/0 W/D/L score maybe? This needs work... Thinking through the problem that

We can then also have awards outside the "top 8", such as Best Necro, Amazon etc. and the usual Most TDs and the like.

So, what about this... we run a mass individual tournament starting on the Friday. As people lose games and feel like they'd rather not play in the "national" event anymore they can dip in and out of Dbowl, SBowl, Painting/Sculpting etc. as they choose (or even back into the main event).

Is that an acceptable compromise? Does it make it different enough to the BB?

It means that since most people will know if they are "competitive" or not after day 1 (three games) they will know if they still want to get NAF points but not necessarily represent their country in the main event, or dip into some of the other fun stuff happening.

Thoughts?

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:52 pm

Talking WC with Nation Team is not bad... it was the first Idea !
Eurobowl extended.

Now, as i said for my taste for WC
Would be a Nation team contest, individual contest, Fun tournies contest and Painting contest.

For letting The work done with Eurobowl, for letting everyone being a part of it, to play different bloodbowl, cos painting is a big part of the Hobbie.
Havin winners in each tourni, awarding points in each tourny for Top players (team)
Overall WC winners would be the Nation with more total points.

TBBers arent fickle.. just some of us are posting.. but check the poll to have a better idea of tbbers wishes

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:02 pm

The poll hasn't been able to keep up with other discussions and also isn't really indicative of what people are posting. The vast majority of people seem to agree... simply doing "Eurobowl + USA + Canada" with 8 coaches per team will not work. Yet that is suggestion #1 with 43 votes?? Doesn't make sense.

But I agree, we not only need a "serious" tournament running which as many people can play in as want to, as well as more peripheral stuff for people to get involved in if they decide 9 games is too many or they'd rather play Dungeonbowl.

Sitting aside ALL of this is the painting competition, and also the painting/sculpting tutorial & advice sessions.

So far this seems like the best compromise - big event everyone plays in, with more stuff on day 2 & 3 for people who wish to leave the main event can play/do. But since that isn't a poll option, we've no idea how "popular" it is except for what posts we see.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:28 pm

maybe only 8 games for tourny could be all right with a bit more time to sleep on Saturday morning cos i think most of us will go out and sleep only some hours on friday night.

Option one meant MondialBowl (eurobowl style tourny + out of Europe nation) PLUS side a big side tourny.

Mordredd · Post by **Mordredd** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:31 pm

Looking at the poll you can divide opinion along two lines, the 'Eurobowl plus' line (where each country has only 1 team and there is a secondary tourney for everyone else) and the 'inclusive tourney' (where there are either enough teams to include everyone or there is an individual tourney that each country's score is somehow calculated from). There is pretty close to 50/50 support for each line.

There is also about 75% support for an event the includes teams though (one of options 1-3), so perhaps the individual tourney isn't all that well supported.

I do think that it is fair to say that the poll hasn't kept up with all the options. In part this is because it was meant to be a fairly vague reading of broad opinion, and I think that it is useful when viewed in that regard. But it doesn't, by its very design, deliver any information on more specific details like whether people support the idea of a tourney that coaches can drop out of and do something else instead (as an example).

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:38 pm

How i see the poll:
Option one, Eurobowl 'plus' + individual tourny =>43 votes
Many teams => 23votes
Equal to :
Big individual tourny without teams= 23 votes

nation team based on first day is out with only 8 votes.

97 votes, so this is around % for the statistics

so i think people want both.. and for team, most of them want eurobowl 'plus' style.

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:40 pm

Mordredd wrote: There is also about 75% support for an event the includes teams though (one of options 1-3), so perhaps the individual tourney isn't all that well supported.

Well if you will setup a poll where 3 of the options are in support in some way of the team tournament it's perhaps not surprising 75% of the support is for a team event.

Don't get me wrong, the poll has it's place, but think it's usefulness is fundamentally limited in that we can't update it as new ideas are suggested.

Hangus · Post by **Hangus** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:42 pm

may i say i do not like the idea of coaches just dropping in and out of the tournament. Why not have six games with the option to play more games but in a different field (ie Streetbrawl)?

Morderedd is right the poll cannot keep up with the views of the posters because people are building on ideas or elaborating others. Maybe on Monday have a new poll or series of polls?

I volunteer ......Hans to run the polls

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:04 pm

Something that seems to have been overlooked a little is that the WC isn't always going to be in the UK, or even in Europe (well, assuming we all keep playing BB that long). It could easily be held in the US, Canada, Oz or even Columbia if the guys there started playing seriously.

If people decide to keep with a Euro-bowl+ROTW tourney, and a secondry (and therefore "less important" in some eyes) singles, that means teams of 8 being needed to commit to going as far afield as need, and a lesser singles tourney for those not in the "clique" isn't going to be as attractive to travel to.

Let's get a system that will encourage ALL coaches to attend the WC wherever it's held.

Hangus · Post by **Hangus** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:18 pm

I agree with Si to an extent. Do you think smaller squads ie 6 would help? I know its not the solution but may help counties with a smaller 'travel friendly' player pool.

I know i have said this before but i do favour the Olympics style event. Maybe with medals, maybe with points? Medals would be quite cool. But points would even things up so the two big main events the team and individual have equal amounts so when it comes to the end tally they count the same.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:26 pm

Hangus wrote:Do you think smaller squads ie 6 would help? I know its not the solution but may help counties with a smaller 'travel friendly' player pool.

Possibly, but imo that's missing the point. The WC should (at least aim to) be THE tournament on the calender for ALL coaches, and if all the focus is put on team events, as it seems many people (especially some of those already on a team) want, then it will fall far short of that goal.

For example, say in 2011, the US hosts the WC, and I have the funds to travel. If the WC is a team event, and I'm not on a team, what incentive will I have to spend my cash to go to the US for the WC, just to take part in a lesser tourney? Why not use the money to attend a "proper, important" tourney, such as the Chaos Cup, Gencon, TKC?

IMO the main thrust of the WC should be to make it the best tournament for as many people as possible. By all means have some sort of team event going as well, but it should be as part of an overall tourney, not as a separate entity.

Hangus · Post by **Hangus** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:59 pm

Darkson wrote:
Hangus wrote:Do you think smaller squads ie 6 would help? I know its not the solution but may help counties with a smaller 'travel friendly' player pool.
Possibly, but imo that's missing the point. The WC should (at least aim to) be THE tournament on the calender for ALL coaches, and if all the focus is put on team events, as it seems many people (especially some of those already on a team) want, then it will fall far short of that goal.

For example, say in 2011, the US hosts the WC, and I have the funds to travel. If the WC is a team event, and I'm not on a team, what incentive will I have to spend my cash to go to the US for the WC, just to take part in a lesser tourney? Why not use the money to attend a "proper, important" tourney, such as the Chaos Cup, Gencon, TKC?

IMO the main thrust of the WC should be to make it the best tournament for as many people as possible. By all means have some sort of team event going as well, but it should be as part of an overall tourney, not as a separate entity.

Maybe we should start a new thread on how to make them both equal?

Its a very good point that maybe getting lost in the noise of several threads.

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:46 am

Hangus wrote:Morderedd is right the poll cannot keep up with the views of the posters because people are building on ideas or elaborating others. Maybe on Monday have a new poll or series of polls?

I volunteer ......Hans to run the polls

We need several polls with only 2 choices in each or we will never get a majority in favour of anything. Or as the others showed we can combine groups and get over 50% in favour of anything we like.

We may need to decide whether the main event is an individual World Championship or a team event. I think we've agreed team, but maybe not for certain. There seem to be plenty in favour of an individual event counting towards team scores.

If we have a team event we need to decide whether we get maximum team spirit from one team per country (some countries combining) or whether we get maximum participation with several teams per country (clubs or regions or whatever), possibly all coaches must be in a team to enter.

Whether the main event is team or individual we need to decide whether most days have only that event running (so there are no distractions from the main event, but if you are not in that you are just a spectator) or whether we have mutiple events on every day (so coaches have lots of choice but cannot go in everything).

We could have separate polls splitting these pairs of issues running at the same time.

We are starting to get lots of great ideas about how the program can be organised, but it would help to know the main aim of the event to choose between these alternative programs.

Old_Man_Monkey · Post by **Old_Man_Monkey** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:08 am

Bevan wrote:We are starting to get lots of great ideas about how the program can be organised, but it would help to know the main aim of the event to choose between these alternative programs.

Then, to my way of thinking, begin with the premise at least of a team event - consider the following:

1) The existing Eurobowl teams stay IF THEY CHOOSE TO.

2) In addition to these teams, a SECOND team is allowed to be created from those coaches who play on DAY ONE three round play in. So each EUROBOWL nation can have at max TWO teams available for the TEAM competition on DAYS TWO and THREE.

3) Also, we allow the creation of Freebooter teams FROM THOSE THAT ATTEND AND PLAY ON DAY ONE; if a coach does not make their nation's SECOND team, they can create a MIXED team but they will NOT be representative of any nation.

Scoring is kept at both the team and individual levels... how these might be balanced or categorized can come later.... it might even be that, should a fourth day be added, individuals might meet and play on the final day....

This will allow for the following:
1) those coaches who feel strongly about playing for 'their' country will still have the opportunity, equal to if not more available than playing with all coaches participating;

2) the existing national teams can carry on as they have and even be expected to lead the cheering for their nations second team and other players from their country;

3) it allows those coaches who still did not make their nation's second team to play as a team - they could even be allowed to form such teams before the tournament and begin team play as that particular group - they would simply elect not to be selected for their nation's second team;

4) it allows for those coaches who can neither play or organize themselves into a team to continue playing in an tournament which continues throughout the weekend.

In going back through the early discussion period of March through May, I believe Hangus, Grotuk and others supported a similar plan....

Just putting it out there.... the above reflects my personal feelings and ALL the ideas of possible competition mixes are being looked at carefully.

OMM

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:26 am

Old_Man_Monkey wrote:2) In addition to these teams, a SECOND team is allowed to be created from those coaches who play on DAY ONE three round play in. So each EUROBOWL nation can have at max TWO teams available for the TEAM competition on DAYS TWO and THREE.

For the non-European teams there is a lot of merit in having a group who are definitely in the event as a team, while others have the chance to represent the country if they are good enough. Australia and New Zealand (and presumably USA & Canada) have coaches currently living in England who would like the chance to represent their country but no prior chance to play off against the home team. Those of us back home would like to include these coaches if necessary but we might be a bit miffed to travel all that way and get pushed out of the team by someone who had never played at home.

This system allows us to pick a home-based team who know each other and have played against each other, but still get a possible benefit if there are others who want to join in, whether they really belong to our side or are freebooters wanting to join anyone who will take them.

It may be harder to get the same team spirit in the extra group, since they presumably won't have team uniforms, mascots, flags and all the other stuff. Prearranged Teams A and B might work better as a team than forming them at the event. Team A could be the existing group and Team B could be selected on merit.