Block Or Piling On?

[Munkey]

Xynok said:

If I had chosen PO over Block, my BOs would have been on their ARSE all night.

Thats what i'm hoping with my POn players, they will be on their arse from Piling On

Seriously though I take the point that on Defence Block is essential, I have never doubted that I would pick it, just havn't decided in what order.

I think possibly only two of my BO's will get POn, and Tackle or possibly Break Tackle for their third skill after Block.

The other two will probably get Block and Guard, then maybe Mighty Blow or Tackle. Of course Stand Firm will be chosen if I get a double. Sorry i'm getting off topic now though

[Xynok]

I honestly believe you should get Block first. I know PO is tempting, but it is dangerous, ESPECIALLY without Block. If you are lucky enough to get a knock down, PO is GREAT. Still, this means the Player is on the ground and out of the play. It isn't like you are going to Blitz with that Player on the next turn, so all he does is stand up, having to wait yet ANOTHER FULL TURN before he even has a CHANCE at using PO. Meanwhile, during your opponents turn, the odds of the Player getting knocked down are HIGH because he lacks Block. If the Players has PO and not Block, you may as well paint a sign on him reading "Please Kill Me!" The high ST will help SOME, but if you are playing against even 2 or 3 Guards, the ST is barely a factor...not having Block, however, IS BIG. A BO with Block WILL make your opponent think twice before mucking it up with him...if he ALSO has PO, the decision for your opponent is EASY because he will DEFINTELY want to take the chance of getting rid of him. If ALL he has is PO, your opponent is licking his chops...he WILL be knocked down. Finally, what happens if all you manage to do is PUSH your opponet? Granted, Block didn't help the Player, but PO is *completely* useless at that point...at least Block will increase your chances of doing something other than standing up on your next turn.

2 dice yields Skull, Block/Powie FREQUENTLY. Take Block first. I'm serious.

[DoubleSkulls]

Against a 2 die block the Block skill will keep you on your feet nearly 20% of the time - assuming your opponent has block. Defensively it is therefore important.

However I think the more important argument is that you are basically sacrificing medium term game play for quicker advancement. I estimate that on average a BOB without MB or PO will pick up 0.75 SPPs per game (about 1 cas every 6 games plus an MVP every 12 games) - I know those figures aren't accurate but I think they are ball park.

So on that rate it takes 8 games to get the first skill, and another 13 games for a second skill.

Now if you say PO triples your casualty rate. Its slightly better than that statistically. You'll probably make fewer blocks as you are on your ass more - but you'll tend to block more with that player when he is available.

With a x3 casualty rate you get 1.4 SPPs per game. So instead of 13 games for the 2nd skill you are looking at 8 games.

That's 5 extra games with Block/PO and 8 fewer games with Block.

Its really a judgement call - and I'd either make the 1st BOB to get a skill - to try and rush to Block before everyone else toughens up - or wait and use it for the 3rd and/or 4th BOB so that they can catch up when you've already got a stable LOS.

[Xynok]

I would say your stats on progression using Block vs. PO are on par with my experience. My BOs have advanced incredibly slowly, but they ALWAYS do their job. PO first probably would increase their rate of progression, but it would also raise the percentage of Dead/Injured results on them too. This doesn't even attempt to calculate significant impact on a per game basis...this is where it IS a judgement call.

Ultimately, I feel either can work due to the fact that in the end, BB is a DICE game. Still, I feel the percentage of them staying alive, and active in the play, is skewed enough without Block that slower progression is acceptable.

Finally, Guard on a BO is simply EEEE NOR MOOSE. PO = not good with Guard. Block, Guard BOs become the crux of an Orc team. I still give at LEAST one (usually the other 2) PO AFTER they have Block.

Simply, if you manage to knock your opponent down, PO is awesome. However, if you roll Block/Powie's, PO is completey useless, AND you cause a TO. My luck rolling Block/Powies has absolutely skewed my perspective on this topic, and there is NO WAY I would give PO before Block. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Dangerous Dave]

Slightly off topic (change of team). If you want to see how powerful Piling On is run a Khemri team. Piling On and Mighty Blow is a tremendous combination... particularly when you have +5 to the AV roll. In the MBBL I'm taking Piling On on all 4 of my Mummies. Sure its a bit obvious what my tactics are going to be... but with 4 Mummies it was always going to be anyway! Sure they are likely to be fouled. But then you have cheap skeletons to foul back. The secret to making Piling On work without Block is to try and get 3 dice (ie 2 assists) - this really makes a difference to

One word of advice - don't play against Amazons with Piling On and no Block. You will get so fed up with the push backs and Block / Skull! Amazons aside, all teams wll be scared of these Mummies. Even Trees have their armour broken on a roll of 6, Longbeards on a 5. Hobgoblins, Norse and Woodies (if you can get near them!) will suffer big time.

As for ST 4 Orcs. Must admit I would tend to favour Block for at least 2 of them, Guard for a third and if you feel up to it..... Piling On for the fourth. The killer use of Piling On though must be in a Chaos team - a Piling On, RSC Chaos Warrior is something to run away from and to kick severely while he's squirming around on the floor!



Dave

[Munkey]

I have played a couple of games now with my Piling On player (admittedly one against Dwarf, not the best choice ) and I have to say

Doh! I wish i'd given him block

I guess it's a learning experience, all my Black Orcs will get Block from now on as their first skill, I think i'll alternate between Guard and Piling On after that with the Guarding One's eventually getting Mighty Blow and the PO one's probably getting Break Tackle if they get a third skill.