Skaven Rat Ogre, still worth it?

[SgtCaples]

It has been my experience that the skaven rat ogres (back when we could have two on the team) were very effective especially when they stayed near each other. It has also been my experience that the only time they get in trouble has been when they get off by themselves.
As you all know, with Wild Animal AND frenzy, it is easy for another team to manipulate him into throwing even or even disadvantaged blocks which are bad for the rat ogre and especially bad since they can end your turn for you rather quickly.
So, I put the question to you, fellow skaven players; Is the Rat ogre still worth having? I have always had 1 in my starting line up and gone for the secoond ASAP so if you don't think he is worth having anymore, then what would you spend the money on? Reroll? Lineman? Apoth? FF?

[Kri]

I haven´t played skaven with the new rules and we don´t have a skaven team in our league currently...but I´m scepticall against rat ogres for the reasons you say.
It is not very difficult to gang up on a RO and force him to a 2 dice-block, you choose. That could easily lead to a turnover, especially without block.

[DoubleSkulls]

If you are playing against competent coaches no, they will turn WA against you so badly that you will lose a lot of games just because of the WA.

[sean newboy]

I think they can be useful but not as starting players. Get some other guys block and or dodge to go with him as guards to prevent assists first. Then get him block at the earliest time. Never start him on the los.

[Marcus]

Get block and pro on them and they'll be alright. You have to be prepared for a thrashing until you get those skills though.

I'm still using a RO for my skaven team in the ECBBL and I'm holding my own, he now has block and pro which lessens the impact but coaches will still attempt to force turnovers by stacking the RO and occassionally that will cost me a game.

[RevolutionaryRat]

The RO as it stands is no longer a front line player. It is too easy for an expereinced coach to team up on him and cause you a turnover through disadvantageous blocks you have to throw and cannot re-roll. Insead, the RO is a sort of uber-safety. Keep him in the back on defense and smack a deep penetrator or plug a hole with him. That has worked well for me. Of course, Marcus is correct that things get much better with block and pro.

Also, against low strength teams it requires a lot of effort to make the RO throw a disadvantageous block, so you might use it more aggressively there.

I wouldn't recommend buying one overall until you have enough players to keep him off the field when you are on offense.

Brian

[Ithilkir]

Play with a true race team! None of this big guy rubbish!

[Ixnatifual]

Rat ogres can definetly be cool if used properly. It might be possible to get one early so you can get him Block almost right off the bat.

1 rat ogre, 9 lineman, 2 gutter runners, 3 rerolls, 8 fan factor... I think this amounts to 1,000,000.

[SgtCaples]

Well, having just played my first match with only one RO on my team, I can honestly say I don't think he is worth it and that I will not have one in my starting lineup again. It just isn't worth 130k for a guy you have no control over and who can't get assists. Not to mention the giant target he becomes. All I can say, is that I am a seasoned coach and used to wining more than I lose and against an unseasoned player, the RO was a definite liability. Pisser too since I just finished converting me 2nd edition RO to hvae a tail.

[Al the Rat]

I personally feel that WA would be fine so long as an element of risk was included in the currently very viable tactic of ganging up on them and forcing a 1/2 die block, to balance the reward of of forcing an immediate turnover. An idea I had was to add a Trapped Rat rule to the current wild animal trait. The reasoning is that if you trap a wild animal in a corner it will just come out fighting even harder. To represent this if a WA is forced to make a 1/2 die block before rolling the dice first roll 2D6, and if the result is equal or lower than the amount of players ganging up on the WA he will become even more enraged attempting to escape. For this turn only the WA receives doubled strength and the multiple block skill.

The idea is a bit rough and ready, and at first glance appears pretty powerful, but generally speaking the WA will have to roll 4 or below on 2D6 to avoid the 1/2 die block, which if maths serves me right is a 1in6 chance.

[SgtCaples]

I actually like the idea and also have one of my own. I can live with things as they are but think the RO should be added directly to the skaven roster (they are the only ones that can use him anyway) so that a forced block can be rerolled. That bit about not using rerolls is what kills me.
If I am forced into making the block at 1/2, then on some level it is my fault for letting it happen but being able to at least burn a reroll would be nice. I actually lost a tunr in the game because despite haaving advantage, I rolled a double skull. It cost me the game because I couldn't use a reroll.

[Kamikaze Rudy]

I consider it a blessing that my opponent focuses on the Big Rat..

I use him as my blitz on offense. Punch a hole in the opponents setup and get him back where I can get him some protection. If the other guy wants to committ 3 players to knocking him down, so be it. That's one less thing I have to worry about as my Gutter Runners are running into the endzone.

On defense, he plays the deep role. Smashing the opponents catchers if he sends any out.

On occasion, he'll get caught up in an uneven block to my opponents favor, but I consider it well worth the beatings that he is able to dish out. You just have to take certain measures to protect him at times.

And while my opponent is focusing on the AV 8 Rat Ogre, the rest of my AV 7 team is laughing in delight.

[Skummy]

I don't think he's worth it. He boils down to an expensive safety, and you can achieve the same thing more reliably and cheaper on a Skaven team with one or two rolls. Big guys need to be beating sticks, and he just isn't.

[l_dauguet]

i agrre that a RO can be a pain when you start. But once he gets block, it really changes everything. beside, with AG 3 you can relly on him to do some crazy stuff like pass. Mine passed 3 times and even scored a touchdown.
I use him like a blitzer rather than on the LOS. Anyway, a skaven team doesn't do to well in bashing with AV 7 except if you have a guy or 2 with guard.

[SBG]

Once they get Block, they're the best Big Guys, IMO...

Fred